I really dislike the use of the green belt and I've never heard a decent argument in favour of it. if its purely about student retention fine then be clear about it - it adds nothing to the current structure
per the other comment, a white belt doesn't need to be 'competing' against black belts anyway. in a well run club they get good training and co-operative, supportive rolling from all levels when they first join
I disagree with all except 8, 14. Even those are just signs of fraud not a McDojo. Everything else needs to be put in context. None of these seem to come from any basis whatsoever.
The writer has no business talking about this IMHumbleO
Later
Lukinho -future_jabroni -Does green come after white and before blue?Marion Cobretti - I don't know many schools in my areas now that don't have green belts. Florida is a hot bed for bjj so. Idk about that. I always just tell them one more and you'll get a real belt in bjj.
And there are plenty of woman who start bjj single looking for a guy. And tend to seek out the alphas in the room. Lol
I think that most of the McDojo red flags are pretty accurate but also I agree w you. I train at ATT and they use green belts. It makes sense, IMO. Once they displayed some basic competency they're awarded a green belt and move into the more advanced class w all of the higher belts. It just makes no sense for a white belt that is absolutely brand new to be competing against black belt, IMO.
Yes
So in a ibjjf rule set... Where do green belts compete? With white belts?
shen -LOL!
Yeah, the more I read these, the more I actually disagree with them...
"1. The instructor’s lineage is unclear."
Well, in my case it's very complicated and I don't usually have time to get into it.
"2. Long term binding contracts."
Oh, "commitment" is a bad word now? I guess we should all just give up on everything.
"3. The instructor, who doesn't have any serious injuries, never spars with his students. "
If I sparred with a student, I would kill them. That's literally how I roll.
"4. The academy charges a really high walk in fee for visitors."
Yes, but they get all-day, unlimited, free access to the seating area along with the walk-in free.
"5. The instructor has a cult like following from his students. "
As mentioned this one I DO agree with. The "Shencore" (an elite cadre of my inner-sanctum students) are not allowed to read, watch television, listen to radio or be on the internet so as to avoid getting sucked into a cult. Can never be too safe!
"6. The instructor starts freaking out if the students haven’t paid the fees in the first days of the month."
Shendokan dues are presented @4pm on the 15th of the month --in cash-- handed directly to me in a red envelop along with a ceremonial sip of tea and presentation of a red bean cake. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!!!
"7. Pressure is placed on students to purchase academy products and services."
I don't want students to get burned by purchasing the sub-standard material of other instructors.
"8. The academy has “Black Belt Fast Track” course."
Guilty, I guess... of making people really good, super-fast!
"9. There are extra belt colors. "
I have discovered several new belt colors that exist between Blue and Purple, alone. It's called "science" --Excuse me for discovering things.
"10. The instructor teaches self defense without having had real life experience. "
I have several much larger sisters and a man-child cousin named Lonnie, who lived with us. Sh!t was NO picnic growing up in the Shen house.
"11. You are not allowed to compete. "
We sometimes try to hold a monthly in-house tournament, every few years or so.
14. The instructor is a black belt in Judo/aikido/karate and a blue belt in BJJ (or any other belt) but wears a BJJ gi with his TMA black belt. Run for the hills when you see this :)
No comment.
"15. The instructor charges for stripes and belt promotions. advancement in rank is an expense instead of a honorable achievement."
Like I tell my students, "if you don't pay for a promotion, you would be STEALING your rank. You don't want a stolen rank, now do you?"
"16. It looks like BJJ, the techniques are BJJ, the gis are BJJ, the style is BJJ but….it’s not BJJ. It’s got a goofy name like Gorilla Jitsu, ground fighting Do or Mongolian/ American/ Russian Jiu-Jitsu…"
If this guy has something to say about "KaJuShenBo"(c), he should say it directly to my face, online!!
"17. Your instructor sound and acts like a motivational speaker."
Sorry for changing so many lives for the better... -Like frail, shy Peter, who came to me with asthma, afraid to even walk to school because he was so afraid of birds. Now he's "Dr. Peter, DVM" --an elite triathlete and undefeated World Extreme Pit Fighting Champion who pilots racing jets for fun.
"18. Nobody ever fails at belt tests."
You're right... IF the instructor is good enough, they don't.
"19. Cross training in judo or wrestling is discouraged."
When you have a an absolutely pure mountain spring, you don't need to start piping in a contaminated, brownish water from the city.
"20. Your instructor has a habit of dating students."
Well, mistakes have been made and lawsuits answered. But, Mrs. Shen still has to come from somewhere.
shen -It's crazy how different my school is from every other school in the world.
Yeah, the more I read these, the more I actually disagree with them...
"1. The instructor’s lineage is unclear."
Well, in my case it's very complicated and I don't usually have time to get into it.
"2. Long term binding contracts."
Oh, "commitment" is a bad word now? I guess we should all just give up on everything.
"3. The instructor, who doesn't have any serious injuries, never spars with his students. "
If I sparred with a student, I would kill them. That's literally how I roll.
"4. The academy charges a really high walk in fee for visitors."
Yes, but they get all-day, unlimited, free access to the seating area along with the walk-in free.
"5. The instructor has a cult like following from his students. "
As mentioned this one I DO agree with. The "Shencore" (an elite cadre of my inner-sanctum students) are not allowed to read, watch television, listen to radio or be on the internet so as to avoid getting sucked into a cult. Can never be too safe!
"6. The instructor starts freaking out if the students haven’t paid the fees in the first days of the month."
Shendokan dues are presented @4pm on the 15th of the month --in cash-- handed directly to me in a red envelop along with a ceremonial sip of tea and presentation of a red bean cake. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!!!
"7. Pressure is placed on students to purchase academy products and services."
I don't want students to get burned by purchasing the sub-standard material of other instructors.
"8. The academy has “Black Belt Fast Track” course."
Guilty, I guess... of making people really good, super-fast!
"9. There are extra belt colors. "
I have discovered several new belt colors that exist between Blue and Purple, alone. It's called "science" --Excuse me for discovering things.
"10. The instructor teaches self defense without having had real life experience. "
I have several much larger sisters and a man-child cousin named Lonnie, who lived with us. Sh!t was NO picnic growing up in the Shen house.
"11. You are not allowed to compete. "
We sometimes try to hold a monthly in-house tournament, every few years or so.
14. The instructor is a black belt in Judo/aikido/karate and a blue belt in BJJ (or any other belt) but wears a BJJ gi with his TMA black belt. Run for the hills when you see this :)
No comment.
"15. The instructor charges for stripes and belt promotions. advancement in rank is an expense instead of a honorable achievement."
Like I tell my students, "if you don't pay for a promotion, you would be STEALING your rank. You don't want a stolen rank, now do you?"
"16. It looks like BJJ, the techniques are BJJ, the gis are BJJ, the style is BJJ but….it’s not BJJ. It’s got a goofy name like Gorilla Jitsu, ground fighting Do or Mongolian/ American/ Russian Jiu-Jitsu…"
If this guy has something to say about "KaJuShenBo"(c), he should say it directly to my face, online!!
"17. Your instructor sound and acts like a motivational speaker."
Sorry for changing so many lives for the better... -Like frail, shy Peter, who came to me with asthma, afraid to even walk to school because he was so afraid of birds. Now he's "Dr. Peter, DVM" --an elite triathlete and undefeated World Extreme Pit Fighting Champion who pilots racing jets for fun.
"18. Nobody ever fails at belt tests."
You're right... IF the instructor is good enough, they don't.
"19. Cross training in judo or wrestling is discouraged."
When you have a an absolutely pure mountain spring, you don't need to start piping in a contaminated, brownish water from the city.
"20. Your instructor has a habit of dating students."
Well, mistakes have been made and lawsuits answered. But, Mrs. Shen still has to come from somewhere.
The class usually has 4 black belts (up to 6). One is a 4th degree, one a 2nd degree and the others are just blacks. We then have 3 purples, 2 blue and 1 white.
We don't have a website, we don't have a phone number and we don't have an association. We train 3 times a week. None of us are really competing much these days (was different 4 years ago)
There is never a fee for the belt test or even the belt.
I fucking love my school.
Oops, I didnt mean to quote you Shen.
A point on charging for promotions, i see the issue with it, but here is a different perspective:
Lets say you have five people grading and they are charged 30-50 each.
The coach allocates 1.5-2 hours to the techniques, giving feedback, corrections, rolling etc.
The following week they revise again and he ensures they have correct technique and are improving.
The belts cost 15 dollars for an average brand and then they get certificates printed at around 5 dollars each.
While they are doing the grading they have two paid instructors taking the classes for a total of 3 hours. Let's say that's approximately 180-300 dollars at a reasonable rate of 30-50 an hr.
The instructor operates at a loss even if he does charge. If he doesn't charge it's a bigger loss.
It's great to keep an eye out for Mc Dojo but sometimes I think people picture instructors as money grubbing leprechauns when they are just trying to keep the doors open and make an honest living.
Liam VT1 _ LEMon - A point on charging for promotions, i see the issue with it, but here is a different perspective:
Lets say you have five people grading and they are charged 30-50 each.
The coach allocates 1.5-2 hours to the techniques, giving feedback, corrections, rolling etc.
The following week they revise again and he ensures they have correct technique and are improving.
The belts cost 15 dollars for an average brand and then they get certificates printed at around 5 dollars each.
While they are doing the grading they have two paid instructors taking the classes for a total of 3 hours. Let's say that's approximately 180-300 dollars at a reasonable rate of 30-50 an hr.
The instructor operates at a loss even if he does charge. If he doesn't charge it's a bigger loss.
It's great to keep an eye out for Mc Dojo but sometimes I think people picture instructors as money grubbing leprechauns when they are just trying to keep the doors open and make an honest living.
Iiam, while u do raise a good reason for it. I disagree. Mainly because history has shown that it isn't necessary to do testing. How did humaita used to grade? I doubt they used to do the lengthy and costly testing method. I bet royler just gave the belt.
By adding in this "necessary" testing to keep the quality of the blue belt alive they they are simply doing it for revenue as the old way. Observing and instructing still works at most gyms and will continue to work. By charging people for a belt test, it can alienate some
Valid point but a different discussion all together! Haha start a new thread and let's get a good debate going
Demetrius Ramos....
Sounds like a list made by a 2 year blue belt to me. While some of the points have validity, the list is obviously a creation of someone who is inexperienced in both the art and the people involved in the art.
Marcus nevel doesn't test. So why do some Humaita gyms charge while others don't?
I can fully understand why a gym would charge due to costs of having the test but it can't be argued that it's a product of an American influenced capitalist way of running a Martial arts gym.
Pretty sure tests didn't come from the kodokan or copacabana.
I don't have any qualms in paying my gym fees but grading tests was one of the reasons I left a previous gym.
This gym had grading days and it was $30 for a stripe and more for a belt (I can't recall the belt cost as I left shortly after I heard about the testing). These grading days took a training session slot so you didn't even get to train anyway.
So having to pay instructors for their time or whatever for gradings just seems like an excuse to justify the expense. Unless you have it on another day. But this can be argued till we are blue in the face.
It just seems like a money grab.
As a black belt with intimate knowledge of Gracie Barra im sure you could call a lot of their practices cash grabs, but most of them would claim it's "just running a business" . Which is it?
I think the problem is that there is a difference between fighters and students. Hobbyists and obsessives may be another way to put it. Gradings can be helpful for fighters to check in on their basics as they spend their time on tournament techniques. Students find it helpful to give them some short term technical goals as a belt change can take 3-5 yrs sometimes,
There are different styles of learning too. Sure some people just need a word from the coach and a bit of correction here and there. Some people need clear guidelines to study.
An academy should be measured on the improvement of its weakest link, not its strongest, and in that Gradings can be useful.
I personally like Gradings if they are a choice and used in the right way.
Also im not sure why you are using Marcos as an example. Humaita association has testing fees from Royler down? I actually don't use them myself.
i stand corrected, nevel does test and charge.
things have changed.
hope GB doesn't follow this path. fuck, then all the haters will come out.
i totally agree that GB has what a lot of people consider to be cash grabs. the uniforms is a standard thing now. most teams utilise this.
it's just the paying for a test for a belt that leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
it's like green belts. fuck me if i ever see anyone with one.
Haha I get your point, look I come from old school training too but I think now is way better
For me personally I want to give my students what I desired coming up and the old school way is designed to weed out the weak and let the strong flourish. I believe in Gradings and I believe with the feedback and milestones it presents do streamline improvement across a broad rage of talent.
In an IBJJF Rule Set yes they compete with white belts, and to my knowledge aren't allowed to wear their green belt.
Someone else can probably clarify that but I've seen them make people take off their green belt and get a white one.