3 Green Berets Talk Barfights

Some good stories. Interesting what they have to say about the introduction of Army Combatives in the 90's (the Gracie self-defense curriculum) around 7:58.

The whole thing is worth a listen if you are into this sort of thing.


And I am not posting this to bash BJJ - it is just interesting to hear this from actual operators.

good vid

More Jim West...

lol hit him in the balls and poke him in the eye. He's a bad ass fellas.

Lmfao. This guy would doubled and choked out in under 30 seconds. Phone Post 3.0

nickgjj - lol hit him in the balls and poke him in the eye. He's a bad ass fellas.

Lmfao. This guy would doubled and choked out in under 30 seconds. Phone Post 3.0

Why? Do you not have testicles?

Burt with the win.

First thing I always do when I get into a bar fight is pluck out my opponents eyeballs. Works like a champ. Phone Post 3.0

Cool, will listen tomorrow. Phone Post 3.0

I prefer Vunak's

Anyone at Bragg in the late '80s remember Wolf's Martial Arts? I think the commander put the place off limits. They were kind of crazy with their training...

I remember Special Forces dudes getting into fights with the bouncers in down town Fayetteville. Rick's club I think it was called. They didn't always win...


... Phone Post 3.0

Cliff notes? Phone Post 3.0

soundoff71 -
View on YouTubeRickson black best extraordinaire did an excellent breakdown on Jui Jitsu shortcomings on his Facebook page (FRAT Warning):

Thank you Darren Branch for sharing this video, apparently the guy in this video is a purple belt in Jiu-Jitsu, which means he's been training anywhere from 3-6 years. Its a demonstration of the sad state BJJ has regressed to. Apparently people are using this video to justify that sport BJJ is effective for self defense, which what I see is the exact opposite. READ BELOW FOR MY BREAKDOWN
here we go...

there is a point where threats start being exchanged "ill whoop your ass" and you can see the situation is escalating and there is a very high possibility that the situation is going to get physical and the BJJ practioner is standing within striking distance WITH HIS HANDS DOWN... instead of hands up in case a punch is thrown. He's very lucky that punch didn't connect or else that would have been the end of the video. THEN he clinches and has absolutely no idea of BASE... he falls backwards against a completely untrained opponent who's not even trying to take him down into a non-dominate position...half guard!??? So he either pulled half guard or fell into half guard instead of initiating a take down himself or at least pulling guard.

Now he does manage to take the back and escape a headlock on the way to taking the back!!! but then has absolutely no idea how to maintain that position and loses it into an open guard... when he had both hooks in and an arm around the neck... how on earth as a purple belt or even a blue belt does he not know how to maintain and finish against a completely untrained opponent pretty much equal size. He goes for the arm with absolutely no control and loses it, I realize guys were stepping in at this point to try to break it up but he didn't even have the leg over the head when he started to try to apply the armlock. He almost gets pile-drived into the ground when the guy pulls up out of the armlock, then transitions to 50/50 guard which again is NOT a dominate position (how many times have you seen people getting punched in the face from this position) and goes for the heal hook. So basically for the duration of the fight there was only about 4 or 5 seconds where he actually had a dominate position.

He was in a significant amount of danger for most of the fight. He never had control of the fight, this is a guy who has been training for 3-6 years against an equal sized opponent with zero training. It pretty much was a giant scramble with a couple submission attepts thrown in. I know it's easy to criticize from the sidelines but that's not my intention. As an Instructor that belives in BJJ being the most effective form of self defense my intention here is to help people see the mistakes that were made and hopefully have people learn from this situation that this is what YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO, instead of praising his performance and giving students the completely wrong idea.

Another point i'd like to make is his actions and effort did not keep him safe at all. Even though he did not get beat up he was not "SAFE" Example, imagine you are in a warzone and people with machineguns are shooting at you and you run out into the open. Even if you do not get shot are you SAFE? Now imagine you are in a tank out in the open and people are shooting at you with machine guns. Do you feel safe? BJJ can be a TANK for you if used properly
All that means is the guy wasn't a purple belt. Phone Post 3.0

I am sorry, but these instructors pontificating from afar appear to be clueless as to how a street fight goes down. What we saw in the basketball video was a very organic and realistic situation. The guy who was attacked could not "stand on his toes with his arms outstretched near his face." Well, I suppose he could have but I have never seen a dude carry on a banter with another guy, over several minutes, in an awkward hand talking/covering the face posture.

Don't forget, both guys were being aggressive here. The video above seems to want to indicate one guy was the victim, and one was the aggressor, they both were going at it verbally and behaviorally, so the whole "stand defensively like this" mentality is out the window.

That sort of thinking works great when you feel you might be mugged or are in a bar with one aggressive guy. The defensive and non-confrontational posture can work like a Trojan horse and allow one to transition into an offenisve attack, i.e., Tony Blauer's SPEAR system. However, it would not be effective when both guys are being aggressive toward one another, as was the case in the basketball gym confrontation.

Street fights are very chaotic, they are not static environments and often don't lend themselves to the type of scenario training this instructor is trying to covey. The hypothetical situation he is describing, and the suggested posture he recommends could not have been implemented because both guys were essentially going at it and trying to impose their will on each other.

BJJ is a great discipline that teaches applicable, live skills. It's not the holy grail of self defense however. One has to train in all the ranges of combat (striking, clinch and ground) in a live proactive (offensive) and reactive (defensive) manner if you are unarmed and have to defend yourself on the street or battlefield.

What I got out of the chat with those guys anyway...


All good points but he was just a normal guy. Not a pro fighter that is at the purple belt level. He might not even compete. Let's say he was a purple, I bet he would do alot better in practice. Without his training, he would have been alot worse off. The old saying "punch a black belt and he becomes a blue belt" is true with someone who is training to compete, imagine how much of an effect a live street fight would be to someone who just rolls.


Later Phone Post 3.0

Good stuff... Phone Post 3.0

I love how it's assumed that the second you slap the guy in the nuts his head goes right down to where you want it to be to rip the eyes out. NO NO NO... You do that to the wrong dude and heis head doesn't go down instead he hits you with a 5 punch combo.