3 Green Berets Talk Barfights

Ryebread - 

JCBlass,

All good points but he was just a normal guy. Not a pro fighter that is at the purple belt level. He might not even compete. Let's say he was a purple, I bet he would do alot better in practice. Without his training, he would have been alot worse off. The old saying "punch a black belt and he becomes a blue belt" is true with someone who is training to compete, imagine how much of an effect a live street fight would be to someone who just rolls.

 


I also think he did great. This is why I think it is stupid for these other instructors, who look like they have never been in a street fight, to sit back and arm-chair QB the guy's defense. He successfully defended himself, that is the point. Peroid.

The point I wanted to make had to do with the hypothetical situation the Henry Atkins was trying to teach. What he showed in that video only works if the "victim" is passive and there is an aggressor. The basketball video had neither, so his whole "you should stand defensively like this, on your toes, with your hands up in front of your face" didn't relate to what happened in the video. In fact, if the jujitsu guy would have done something awkward and silly like that, in that particular situation, he would have escalated it further for looking like a dumb ass.

jcblass - 
Ryebread - 

JCBlass,

All good points but he was just a normal guy. Not a pro fighter that is at the purple belt level. He might not even compete. Let's say he was a purple, I bet he would do alot better in practice. Without his training, he would have been alot worse off. The old saying "punch a black belt and he becomes a blue belt" is true with someone who is training to compete, imagine how much of an effect a live street fight would be to someone who just rolls.

 


I also think he did great. This is why I think it is stupid for these other instructors, who look like they have never been in a street fight, to sit back and arm-chair QB the guy's defense. He successfully defended himself, that is the point. Peroid.

The point I wanted to make had to do with the hypothetical situation the Henry Atkins was trying to teach. What he showed in that video only works if the "victim" is passive and there is an aggressor. The basketball video had neither, so his whole "you should stand defensively like this, on your toes, with your hands up in front of your face" didn't relate to what happened in the video. In fact, if the jujitsu guy would have done something awkward and silly like that, in that particular situation, he would have escalated it further for looking like a dumb ass.


No doubt! Dude doesn't appear to have been given the greatest hands in regards to genetics.

To me, it seemed apparent where things were going. I def. would not have acted the way he did. Getting KO'd in a street fight (sucker punch or not) seems like the worst possible outcome. In my head, I wake up and my girl is blowing him and his friends. They are using my limp body as a fuck table and it's streaming to world star for my mother to see. Joking aside, you are at someone else's mercy.

Anyone else have difficulty with the whole "I upper cut the guy so hard, the shit that killed Dale Earnhardt happened to him" bit?

I mean, lulwut? I'm pretty sure what your brain stem separates from the spinal column, you ded son.

In Phone Post 3.0


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/73/62/43/73624383ade012c56645c12d80e8768c.jpg

I'd have lost my mind if I saw this as a kid in the 80s

Burt Reynoldz -
nickgjj - lol hit him in the balls and poke him in the eye. He's a bad ass fellas.

Lmfao. This guy would doubled and choked out in under 30 seconds. Phone Post 3.0


Why? Do you not have testicles?

The "I can eye gouge you and bite you" argument is so stupid. Phone Post 3.0

Ryebread -
jcblass - 
Ryebread - 

JCBlass,

All good points but he was just a normal guy. Not a pro fighter that is at the purple belt level. He might not even compete. Let's say he was a purple, I bet he would do alot better in practice. Without his training, he would have been alot worse off. The old saying "punch a black belt and he becomes a blue belt" is true with someone who is training to compete, imagine how much of an effect a live street fight would be to someone who just rolls.

 


I also think he did great. This is why I think it is stupid for these other instructors, who look like they have never been in a street fight, to sit back and arm-chair QB the guy's defense. He successfully defended himself, that is the point. Peroid.

The point I wanted to make had to do with the hypothetical situation the Henry Atkins was trying to teach. What he showed in that video only works if the "victim" is passive and there is an aggressor. The basketball video had neither, so his whole "you should stand defensively like this, on your toes, with your hands up in front of your face" didn't relate to what happened in the video. In fact, if the jujitsu guy would have done something awkward and silly like that, in that particular situation, he would have escalated it further for looking like a dumb ass.


No doubt! Dude doesn't appear to have been given the greatest hands in regards to genetics.


To me, it seemed apparent where things were going. I def. would not have acted the way he did. Getting KO'd in a street fight (sucker punch or not) seems like the worst possible outcome. In my head, I wake up and my girl is blowing him and his friends. They are using my limp body as a fuck table and it's streaming to world star for my mother to see. Joking aside, you are at someone else's mercy.

The thing I took away from the video is that somebody who has trained in a combat sport for 3-6 years should have enough situational awareness and confidence to either walk away from that situation or at the very least not put themselves in a position to get sucker punched.

I think the point to be made is that this guy has not been taught "martial arts". He was pumped through a McDojo which taught him none of the stuff BJJ is supposed to teach you. Phone Post 3.0

Sub for bad assery Phone Post 3.0

Fun stuff here!As a Latino 5'7" bballer for 52 years played in NYC,HS,College,Military,Pd.Most of my fights were on the courts.I've used my grappling 2 out of 10 times that I recall.I don't like going to the ground with many people around!I'm doing the Nike defense if shit gets stupid, 1 on 1 no problem !My last fight was at LA FITNESS a few years back.I went with a friend who is a decent player he is 6'4" 230 solid,I'm 160.So the guy my friend was guarding was scoring by clearing him with elbows,which is not bball.So I switched with my friend and started checking the opponent with tight defense.He threw an elbow I protected my self and clinched with I guess a 6'1" 185lber,threw a knee and clinched his neck and threw a clean right to the jaw.They pulled me of him,he called the cops.I'm a retired cop and hate bullies lol

jcblass - I am sorry, but these instructors pontificating from afar appear to be clueless as to how a street fight goes down. What we saw in the basketball video was a very organic and realistic situation. The guy who was attacked could not "stand on his toes with his arms outstretched near his face." Well, I suppose he could have but I have never seen a dude carry on a banter with another guy, over several minutes, in an awkward hand talking/covering the face posture.

Don't forget, both guys were being aggressive here. The video above seems to want to indicate one guy was the victim, and one was the aggressor, they both were going at it verbally and behaviorally, so the whole "stand defensively like this" mentality is out the window.

That sort of thinking works great when you feel you might be mugged or are in a bar with one aggressive guy. The defensive and non-confrontational posture can work like a Trojan horse and allow one to transition into an offenisve attack, i.e., Tony Blauer's SPEAR system. However, it would not be effective when both guys are being aggressive toward one another, as was the case in the basketball gym confrontation.

Street fights are very chaotic, they are not static environments and often don't lend themselves to the type of scenario training this instructor is trying to covey. The hypothetical situation he is describing, and the suggested posture he recommends could not have been implemented because both guys were essentially going at it and trying to impose their will on each other.

Yep, there is a big difference between mutual combat and getting tackled at an ATM by a methed up psycho.

I still lol at people that thing a ball shot or biting is gonna be a fight ender. I have bitten a motherfucker, eye gouged, fish hooked, dick and throat punched people, if you are bigger than me, and on top of me in a fight, prepare for the worst, it's still not a dim mak or anywhere close to it like these fucks make it out to be. You will be really let down sometimes about how ineffective a cock punch can be when a bunch of adrenaline is flowing.

In Phone Post 3.0

Non N00B -
jcblass - I am sorry, but these instructors pontificating from afar appear to be clueless as to how a street fight goes down. What we saw in the basketball video was a very organic and realistic situation. The guy who was attacked could not "stand on his toes with his arms outstretched near his face." Well, I suppose he could have but I have never seen a dude carry on a banter with another guy, over several minutes, in an awkward hand talking/covering the face posture.

Don't forget, both guys were being aggressive here. The video above seems to want to indicate one guy was the victim, and one was the aggressor, they both were going at it verbally and behaviorally, so the whole "stand defensively like this" mentality is out the window.

That sort of thinking works great when you feel you might be mugged or are in a bar with one aggressive guy. The defensive and non-confrontational posture can work like a Trojan horse and allow one to transition into an offenisve attack, i.e., Tony Blauer's SPEAR system. However, it would not be effective when both guys are being aggressive toward one another, as was the case in the basketball gym confrontation.

Street fights are very chaotic, they are not static environments and often don't lend themselves to the type of scenario training this instructor is trying to covey. The hypothetical situation he is describing, and the suggested posture he recommends could not have been implemented because both guys were essentially going at it and trying to impose their will on each other.

Yep, there is a big difference between mutual combat and getting tackled at an ATM by a methed up psycho.

I still lol at people that thing a ball shot or biting is gonna be a fight ender. I have bitten a motherfucker, eye gouged, fish hooked, dick and throat punched people, if you are bigger than me, and on top of me in a fight, prepare for the worst, it's still not a dim mak or anywhere close to it like these fucks make it out to be. You will be really let down sometimes about how ineffective a cock punch can be when a bunch of adrenaline is flowing.
This. I've been bitten and eye gouged. Just mad me more angry. And since I had dominant positioning, it was bad news for the other guy Phone Post 3.0

In all seriousness, the consensus re: the military guys is that as you go up the tiers, what the individuals bring is an increasing propensity for immediate, decisive and violent action. This translates into aggression, which wins "fights" (killings), especially when weapons are involved.

There is a lot of merits to this, because it's Martial arts, after all.

That said the principles of empty hand remain what they are. John Danaher articulated it very well in his book with Renzo. Paraphrasing, TMAs kept deadly or crippling techniques, but you really can't practice them full speed against a resisting opponent, or everyone would be too banged up (why sims are used for force on force instead of real bullets).

"Sports" like MMA took out lethal and crippling techniques like eye gouges in order to focus on safer (relatively) techniques that can be done full speed against a resisting opponent.

The nuanced part of the discussion is when you get rough men with a legit man killer MOS that have done a lot of work with weapons applying those skills to empty hand combat.

IMO, the war fighter would obviously clean house with weapons. We've seen this when things go sideways in the real world. Without weapons, this same person would probably prevail against one or two generic thugs, no weapons. It'd probably be due to aggression and athleticism and would look like a predator attacking prey.

OTOH, someone skilled at the same level in MMA would probably wreck the same two bad guys even easier and cleaner. He'd probably destroy the war fighter as well, assuming no weapons, for the reasons Danaher said.

So it's not that sack shots, gouges etc don't work, it's more that you shouldn't assume they are fight enders. There are plenty of vids of people getting shot and stabbed and not stopping until after enough time to do damage (sometimes lethal) before that. As much as losing an eye ball or ball ball sucks, getting shot or stabbed would probably be worse. Phone Post 3.0

http://youtu.be/SQbHgD65_8E

If a blue could be so kind. .. read a lot of this guy's stuff and he is spot on with his theory and his training methods Phone Post 3.0

Thanks brother... voted up Phone Post 3.0

Akins is quick to criticise but there's no evidence he can back up his own claims. Won't compete and never done a Gracie challenge so we just have to trust he can carry out his game plan perfectly when the adrenaline is flowing

I like Akins and what be brings but always easy to criticise. Phone Post 3.0