If you were to choose 3 or 4 throws to teach beginners in their first weeks of training, which ones do you all think are the best and easiest "basic" throws from which they would benefit best. Ignore the go-kyo levels and select from any throws.
My preference:
1. Ogoshi
2. Ouchi gari
3. Taiotoshi
4. Kouchi gari
IMHO, tio is a really difficult throw for a beginner becuase it requires no body contact at all.
i think id just start a beginner out with learning how to grip and move. maybe show them how simple throws like kouchi, ouchi and sasai are with movement. the more i think about it the the more i am becoming convinced that it is a mistake to teach beginners how to do a throw when they dont know how to grip and move first.
There is a specific reason that we all learn the first set of the gokyo no waza first.
They are the foundation for the rest.
of the 8, I'd pick
O goshi, O soto gari, Sasae tsurikomi ashi, Seionage
(goshi waza, ashi waza reap, ashi waza sweep, te waza)
From: JoshuaResnick
Date: 03/14/05 08:00 PM
Member Since: 06/12/2002
5982 Total Posts Ignore User : Edit
IMHO, tio is a really difficult throw for a beginner becuase it requires no body contact at all.
i think id just start a beginner out with learning how to grip and move. maybe show them how simple throws like kouchi, ouchi and sasai are with movement. the more i think about it the the more i am becoming convinced that it is a mistake to teach beginners how to do a throw when they dont know how to grip and move first. "
Josh, that's a good point, however, beginners do want to throw, that's why they are taking Judo.
That said, I'm sure you can come up with a way to teach grip and move and throw in a first Judo lesson.
The throws that do not require turning the back are easiest, but you have to get some back turning in soon or they tend to be slower to learn them.
Ben
But to answer the question:
Osoto Gari, Ouchi Gari, Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi, and a generic hip throw.
In general, people will say not to do one legged throws, but I've found that they are on throws to the rear. No Uchi Mata, Harai Goshi!
The back falls are really easier to take, tori can kind of roll uke to the mat so uke can practice falling. It takes a lot more control to do a forward over the hip/back type throw.
I started my Judo school on February 21st. The two women and a few kids who started then are doing the following stuff so far.
Osoto Gari, Ouchi Gari, O goshi, Kouchi Gari, Koshi Guruma, Tsurikomi Goshi, Tai Otoshi, Sasae Tsurkiomi Ashi. We did some Ippon Seoi but I dropped it for now, letting go and regripping is too complicated.
Tori in drills always controls uke's sleeve, and gets the sleeve with a cross-grip sleeve attack, holding uke's hand off the lapel or very low on tori's lapel. I really drill that into them, and they pick it up quickly and get better each class.
They do combinations between Osoto, Ouchi, Sasae, and the hip throws, and Kouchi/Tai Otoshi (not as much though). I explain how combos work, use them to illustrate Seirokyu Zen'yo.
Oh, and they throw to pins and do simple escapes, plus randori as well.
So although they don't look that good, they are doing a reasonable facmile of what real Judo looks like: Movement, gripping, throwing, and control to the ground.
Ben R.
The point of tai-otoshi is well taken.
Perhaps replacing it with osoto is better, although I tried to think of something other than osoto as I see some many poor attempts getting countered as newbies plant the leg or simply reach out and hook rather than using good posture and kuzushi...
I always try and teach a first time visitor a little bit of everything first out. Throws are exiting and fun, especially hip throws. So after breakfalls, I normally start with osoto then ogoshi (or i-seoi if they have trouble with ogoshi). I then show kesagatame and an escape from kesa. They then can participate in newaza or tachiwaza randori with the rest of the class at the end (making sure they're with other students who look after them).
'i think id just start a beginner out with learning how to grip and move. maybe show them how simple throws like kouchi, ouchi and sasai are with movement. the more i think about it the the more i am becoming convinced that it is a mistake to teach beginners how to do a throw when they dont know how to grip and move first.'
josh, i think you have a great point and hope you test if this works when you get around to teaching at your future school.
if you look at it in the long run, people will eventually be learning rear throws, and the beginning lessons should be delevoping feel for gripping, movement and and balance, whatever the specific throw.
ben, although i trust your experience about teaching rear throws, if judo is a long term learning process, i wonder if it will make a huge difference in the long run (years), if it takes students longer to learn rear throws. also considering it takes a novice while to consistently get in even 1 effective throw against a similarily skilled opponent.
"ben, although i trust your experience about teaching rear throws, if judo is a long term learning process, i wonder if it will make a huge difference in the long run (years), if it takes students longer to learn rear throws. also considering it takes a novice while to consistently get in even 1 effective throw against a similarily skilled opponent."
Probably not, it's just an easier way for them to get throwing and falling quickly and with less drama. If you have crash pads the forward throws can come in a lot sooner. They are a bit scarier for uke, though.
I move them to forward throws, using throwing uke from their knees, plus a couple of specific drills I learned from Dr. Brousse at USA Judo coaching conferences to help them learn control and to look out for uke. Too much emphasis on the rear throws can and will result in what I call "Osoto Syndrome", so I try to avoid that.
Because Judo is a long term process, it is important, as Josh points out, to emphasis correct gripping, posture, and movement along with learning throws. I am very upfront with my students and tell them that if they don't get that stuff down, then they won't get far in Judo. Amazingly, they listen to me and do what I ask of them.
Ben
first throws I was taught were o soto gari, o goshi, and seionage. As a kid i had a good sensei who encouraged us to find one or two throws we liked doing and practise them constantly in uchikomi and randori. For me it was O goshi which became uki goshi and o soto. I started quite young 6 years old and I must have spent a couple of years doing those throws only, and i got good at them eventually. It was easy to learn the more advanced throws after building a solid base and not getting overwhelmed with trying to learn a bunch of throws.