Dr. Ed Powe is also affiliated with Amakhanda, and his books are excellent introductions to the combat games of Nigeria, the African Indian Ocean and the Diaspora. He certainly deserves the support of sincere students of African martial history. Contra Mestre Dennsi Newsome acts as an Elder to our small group.
Re--52 Hand Blocks, aka The 52 Shakes etc. Amakhanda plans to publish an upcoming article on this fascinating streetboxing style. While it has definite affinities with African martial styles, our current view is that it is a specifically African-American (and possibly African-Caribbean) innovation, along the lines of 'cutting'. I will be happy to notify Underground Forum members when the article is published. I actually contacted Stickgrappler a couple of months ago regarding this, and he was incredibly helpful in putting me in touch with some folks. Thanks again.
One aside--although Amakhanda has existed for several years, much of our research and conclusions have not been made public. This is because African martial history has been so maligned and ignored by the mainstream community that folks like Sreiter would credit immigrants to Africa with creating African martial arts. There are also plenty of frauds out there ripping off people by the hundreds while claiming to teach 'Afrikan martial arts'. The African arts are absolutely unique in their aesthetic presentations and philosophy. This is evident for anyone with a passing acquaintance with capoeira. Our organization is dedicated to the documentation and preservation of these arts as African cultural treasures, and we are concerned by efforts to co-opt these expressions of the culture. Much of what we have to share with the world must be verified beyond the shadow of a doubt, so that interested parties have no questions about the origins of the martial systems we are presenting. Sorry about the long post. Hope it was helpful! Alaafia.
About 5-6 months ago, there was some stirrup in the Capoeira community about Dennis Newsome only teaching African Americans Capoeira. Apparently, someone posted on a Capoeira website forum that he'd gone to Dennis' school to learn Capoeira, and Dennis refused to teach him because he was white. This person was extremely pissed and posted their disgust with Dennis.
After alot of debate about Dennis' views on teaching Capoeira to other nationalities and if it was based on racial bias, he was informed apparently by some of his students and he posted a rather long response to everyone's concern about segregating who he teaches. Dennis made it pretty clear that he has taught other nationalities aside from African Americans, but that his work concentrated on teaching underprivileged youth in San Diego about their African heritage though the African Arts and through Education.
It's this point where I'm wondering if he'd be willing to share some of his knowledge w/me on JHR. If he is not willing to, that's fine, I understand, but it just seems like a very interesting art to learn. WHen I used to work with gangs and inner city youth, I had actually seen a gang fight in one of the projects in Los Angeles we were working at. At the time, I didn't know what style this guy was using, but from what JHR has been described as, it looked like that was what he was doing. I'll tell you one thing, that's a very intriguing art in and of itself.
odu -
nice to have you here and posting - thanx for all the information. first off let me say i am aware of many of the native african arts - the are many things which happens at the same time and yet seperate from each other - the whole cosmic or collective conscience thing - a great example as it relates to african MA's is the development of the sambak (sp?) - rhino tale and stip of hide and the phillipino use of the stingray tail - they look almost identical and are used pretty much the same way - there are only so many ways to develope weapons and fighting systems -
with that said, are you discounting the fact that madegascar was part of a s.e. asian empire - and as such, military train (martial combative techniques) - were brought and taught there - and do you really think that there would be no influence on the mainland - i think that is extremely naive - every culture added to every culture they came in contact with - especially with the martial arts -
purhaps it's more of a sence of ethnic pride than naivate' that wont allow certain people to admit the influence of outsidegroups - i understand this and can see where it comes from - any down trodden peoples need a sence of pride to help enpower them
but this doesnt change the fact that the chineese influcenced s.e. asian fighting systems when they conquered them, and in turn they taught and implemented their fighting and combative systems on the island of madegascar -
did people from madegascar influence main land africa - i dont know - but it would be a reasonable and logical conclusion given their aproximation to each other
besides JHR looking like silat - the stick fighters (of the seregatti ???) in africa have a very crude yet similar looking system to phillipino and indonesian staff work - which is different than thai, japaneese, okinowan, korean, and chineese, not to mention the staff work of the brits,celts, ect. (forgive the spelling) - it could be coiencedence - but if it developed independantly - why is it look like the fighting arts of the majaphit empire and not like any of the other staff fighting systems - surely if there are only so many ways to use a staff - you'd find some techs that would be like other systems - yet in the african stick (staff) fights i saw - i only saw the techs and style of the majaphit empire
Stickgrappler- How could I get in touch with Mr. Newsome to ask him about any JHR connection in the south? I'm thinking of going to Angola and see if I can interview any of the guards or inmates, but like Jason said, I'm not to sure inmates would be very good for an interview.
Odu- Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to reading all the info you have on African arts.
the sjambok is a terribly effective weapon. It will rips through clothing. It is also commercially available in a modern version:
http://www.tacticaloptions.com/store/shop.mpl?Words=sjambok&okw=sjambok
also http://stores.yahoo.com/specpro/sjambok.html
There's also a book on it:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1559501987/inktomi-bkasin-20/002-7155346-8255225#product-details
i do not have time now to read through everything new posted to this thread, have to print out. i have an email from Pablo Birriel (sp?) which i have to reply to. he may be able to contribute too.
odu,
i think all i did was point you to Dennis Newsome's site or forwarded your email to him? regardless, glad to help out. glad to see you posting. "52 shakes" = that's a new one.
Dustin,
check the jkd forum, those links are of Dennis Newsome's site. he has contact info listed.
e.kaye,
you know i'm still waiting for it. :-) zuffa make it happen ;-)
i have the following URL linked from my 52/JHR page:
http://tutor.hypermart.net/martialarts_ezine101599.htm
go to the middle of the page for an article on "JAILHOUSE THE FIGHTING ART OF SLAVES"
the author, Pablo Birriel, of this article has emailed me and i am awaiting his reply.
poobear -
see if you can find stuff on the stingray tail - it's nasty
besides hurting, whipping, ect.ect. - it has the added bonus of having neuro toxins that can kill you if not treated correctly and/or fast enough
Odu:
I agree with you on what you wrote about Capoeira. It's history has been the guinea pig of many different theories as to its development and origin.
As a Capoeira student, my take on it is simply this: Capoeira is African in origin and is rooted from the N'golo, or Zebra Dance of the Bantu people. It's development and evolution into a fighting style was on Brazilian soil, as a result of Brazilian slaves, and later, Capoeira Mestres who sought out a more realistic way of using Capoeira as a fighting art, yet continuing to observe the traditions of its African heritage.
I believe the most common misnomer has been what alot of Capoeira students have been taught about Capoeira's history, which is the fact that slaves disguised Capoeira as a dance through the ginga. I have read other accounts that discredit this theory, based upon the fact that African slaves openly practiced Capoeira on sugar and tobacco plantations in front of their slave owners, which would allude to the fact that they had no reason to disguise Capoeira in the form of a dance.
Another interesting factoid is that there are Savate stylists who believe there are certain corollations between Capoeira and Savate, perhaps making them related. I had discussed this subject with a few other Capoeira students on a Capoeira forum. Although not recorded in history, we believed that people may have developed this theory by the fact that French sailors may have encountered Capoeira during a voyage to Brazil, and may have seen dock workers performing Capoeira in Bahia where it was most prevalent aside from Rio de Janeiro. Mestre Bimba was a dock worker by trade aside from teaching Luta Regional Bahiana (or Capoeira Regional). This was basically the only theory we could come up with, although I'm sure there are others. I believe Professeur Paul Buitron, the U.S. Savate President, made mention that Mestre Accordeon (one of Mestre Bimba's original students) had written in his book the fact that Savate and Capoeira are related. To my knowledge, this was never introduced in Mestre Accordeon's book whatsoever.
Sorry for the long winded post, but just thought I'd add a little something as I am a Capoeira student.
Muito Axe,
Takedown
Mike Baron is a comic book writer/artist. he is probably best known for 2 of his (co)creations: The Badger and Nexus. When he was working on The Punisher (Marvel), he had him know JHR and used a few moves. i emailed him asking about how he heard about JHR. the following, with his kind permission in posting publicly, is his reply:
"I'm not sure how I heard about JHR, but it wasn't from the Lethal Weapons movies. I've been involved in martial arts for twenty-five years, studying an eclectic blend of this and that. I do know JHR is not limited to inmates of color. In Wisconsin, I knew a guy named Bob Curley, an expert grappler, who went to the pen for drug violations. Bob, of Irish descent, somehow got himself elected leader of the black muslims. He is out now, studying Arabic languages. I realize this doesn't help, but there it is.
Mike Baron"
---------------------
Mr. Baron has provided me a lead in tracking down Mr. Curley.
How so Joey?
Sorry I haven't been around to answer various questions. RE: SReiter. Your inference that Indonesian/Filipino etc. arts were precursors to the African arts is wrong. Where is the historical basis for assuming that there was contact/cultural exchange? The only point of contact with anything resembling these cultures is in Madagascar. The African arts that Dr. Powe has catalogued there---moringue and its various cognates--are associated with immigrants from mainland Africa (specifically Mozambique). There's not a trace of evidence that Indonesians went to the continental mainland. The African arts, as I mentioned, are aesthetically different from other traditions, as can be seen in capoeira.
The musical instruments used to keep time during training are African, and have African names. The weaponry associated with African combat systems are unique to the continent. The philosophical underpinnings of the systems are rooted in the local cultures. Once again, a superficial similarity with martial arts from halfway across the seas is not enough basis to assume any influence. If there are no similarities in techniques between African arts and foreign ones, no retained tradition of outside tutelage (as in the case of Okinawan te and Chinese arts, for instance), no use of foreign terms in the arts, no hint of foreign philosophy in the core values of the art, why would anybody assume that outsiders introduced or influenced these African combative systems? There is no reason to.
Of course, you chalk this up to ethnic pride or something like that. I find that a tad arrogant, since you self-admittedly don't know much about African history and probably couldn't identify most of these places on a map. I'm a Nigerian working with other African scholars on this issue (Dr. Desch-Obi is a fellow countryman and is also of Cape Verdean ancestry, along with Richard Khammesse, who is Tanzanian). Being down-trodden etc. has nothing to do with our interest in documenting these traditions. The group I work with is only interested in factually-verifiable information, and I can confidently speak on anything I have posted because I have been researching the topic for close to a decade now. You have to admit that it is a bizarre stretch of the imagination to attribute all Malagasy martial arts to Malayo-Indonesian settlers who today have nothing to do with those arts.
On the purported similarity between 'Jailhouse Rock' and Indonesian Silat: first, the system I am referring to is properly called the 52 Hand Blocks. I assume it is similar or the same as Elder Newsome's 'Jailhouse Rock' but that has not been verified. Who has shown you a demonstration of Jailhouse Rock that resembled Silat? The 52 Hand Blocks as I know them are a series of patterns and do not particularly resemble any demonstration of silat I have ever seen. I am equally confident in guessing that they don't resemble 'Shito-Ryu Karate' either. Your reference to 'crude'---I am guessing they are crude because they are African--stickfighting styles from the Serengetti that resemble Arnis etc. also ring false. Please give me the names of these styles and also let me know when you observed them and which ethnic group practiced them.
I suspect you may have seen a Surma match, but again, that has no particular similarities to these other arts that I can think of. I confess to not being very familiar with Filipino styles, but your insistence on some vague connection between Asian martial arts and African martial arts simply has no basis in fact. I suggest you familiarize yourself with general African history before formulating these theories. The main epicenters of the African martial arts/cultures which we find echoed in the Diaspora--namely, the old Guinea Coast and the Kongo-Angola region of West-Central Africa--are far, far away from ANY possible contact with Indonesians and Philipinos. You are possibly the first person I've ever known to suggest such a thing, and I can assure that historians, anthropologists and archeologists around the world would be seriously indebted to you if you prove to be right on this issue. And if you can point out honest historical correlations between the practice of Engolo, capoeira, borrey, kandeka, gidigbo or mgba with non-African arts, I would love to hear about it. Thanks again for taking an interest and my apologies for the long-winded post.
Takedown---I don't believe there was a relationship between Savate and Capoeira, and am especially wary of Mr. Buitron's suggestion that Savate is a parent art of capoeira. I would have to see Mestre Accordeon's evidence to understand why he would claim that the two arts are related. Theorists who follow this line of thinking are known as rampant diffusionists in history. If anything, the French arts may have come into contact with other African arts in colonies like Martinique and Guadeloupe, but I'm skeptical about that too. There is just no proof or reason to believe this, apart from the coincidence that both traditions stress the use of the foot.
Savate does not resemble Capoeira or Ladjia in any way---from ceremonies to techniques to philosophy. It is possible that French dock workers fought captured African soldiers and mercenaries in Brazil, with one side influencing the other in some way? Anything is possible. But is there any actual evidence or reason to believe this? No.
Also---The Engolo is often characterized as a dance, but it was in fact part of a training regimen for West-Central African soldiers. It was well-documented by Portuguese and Spanish clergy traveling through the area who wrote ethnographies of the people they met. The Engolo, along with another segment of the training regimen called 'nsanga' or sanga/sanguar, gave birth to the particularly Afro-Brazilian art of Capoeira. Mestre Bimba's Regional was likely influenced by grappling systems that were contemporary in Brazil (judo/'jiu jitsu' and possibly African wrestling styles like gidigbo), but that also remains speculation. What is more certain is that Bimba added some of the techniques of Batuque (literally an African 'combat dance' between a couple) to his capoeira.
Odu:
First, thank you for the information you've provided so far. It's interesting to hear another viewpoint on the African arts.
I know there has been speculation as to whether or not Bimba incorporated other styles into Regional, which some people debate he did, while other say he did not. I've read a few accounts where Bimba was taught Angola and Batuque by Bentinho, who was apparently a very good Batuque fighter. Some of the footsweeps we do don't resemble anything akin to other fighting arts, so I can tell that Capoeira definitely has its own distinguished set of techniques. I've never heard of gidigbo (not even sure how to pronounce it either).
Could you shed some light on this wrestling style?
Takedown