triso - You guys are missing my point.
While it is of course true that there are a shitload of depictions of submission holds and positioning throught history, Matt trains under Patt, and works very closely with Horn on submissions, both of which train BJJ correct?
Of course you see these techniques in Judo, Catch, etc., but that doesn't mean that is what Hughes was doing.
If you go by that thinking, then we are all doing either Catch, JuJitsu, or a combo of both.
I know what your saying I just don't know why 
This thread is legendary! I'm so grateful someone brought it back to life.
scuffler - 
Been puzzling over this one for a while... I can't find a rational way to get here.
CharlesLewis - scuffler -
Been puzzling over this one for a while... I can't find a rational way to get here.
I hate when I get caught in that move!
Fred Grubmier
The legendary Carny shooter
cheesesteak - CharlesLewis - scuffler -
Been puzzling over this one for a while... I can't find a rational way to get here.
I hate when I get caught in that move!
even as a show hold in a work... how did he get there?
CharlesLewis - cheesesteak - CharlesLewis - scuffler -
Been puzzling over this one for a while... I can't find a rational way to get here.
I hate when I get caught in that move!
even as a show hold in a work... how did he get there?
Charles, closes thing I've ever seen is from mount if the bottom man is pushing up on the chest of the top man the top man can sweep the arms across his chest while inserting say his right arm into bend of the bottom mans right arm, catching his wrist on the backside of the arm / shoulder just past the armpit. then dismount and move to a position similar to a head and arm side control only pinning the man down through to result short arm scissors that you have created.
It was something we played around with as a "what if" type of hold and then I saw one of our better guys catch a newbie in it. degree of difficulty is an 11 on a 1-10 scale. Not likely to happen but I did see it once.
imagine the same position on the mat.
How he got there standing up I have no idea.
That toehold picture above is Hackenschmidt working with Dr. Roller. I guess he was trying to take a page from Gotch's book. It didn't help.
Farmer Burns doing his hangman stunt that he preformed in the carnivals.
Farmer Burns showing some self defense moves.
scuffler -
Farmer Burns doing his hangman stunt that he preformed in the carnivals.
Just wanted to get this one onto this page!
The original strangler Lewis, Evan "Strangler" Lewis.
I read years ago that he had written a book on wrestling that Ed Lewis had been influenced by. I have never again found any reference to that book despite searching high and low.
There is a written account of a match between Evan Lewis and a Japanese jiu-Jitsu man that describes what certainly sounds like Lewis landing a heelhook and injuring his opponent.
scuffler -
The original strangler Lewis, Evan "Strangler" Lewis.
I read years ago that he had written a book on wrestling that Ed Lewis had been influenced by. I have never again found any reference to that book despite searching high and low.
I, too searched high and low for that. There's very little about Evan anywhere, most of what I have found was from links off this site.
Scuffler, your description of that arm scissor just made my head explode. I think I see what you mean, no way I am landing that... and I freaking LOVE scissors.
