I know the gi is a part of BJJ and it is to be used/grabbed. I have been watching Ryan Hall dvds for a while and he constantly refers to people "abusing the gi grips." I haven't really thought about that much until the last year training, I have noticed it more and more
SOme things that people do make it really hard to do things not because they are skilled but they latch onto the gi in an odd manner.
I'm not talking about cross chokes and spider guard. For example, spider guard is not possible in No-gi but I don't consider it an abuse of the gi grips because it overall encourages hip movement and guard retention.
I tend to find people who are really strong tend to abuse the gi. WHat are some examples you guys have come across where you feel people are using the gi in an extremely unusual/unrealistic manner and how do you guys deal with it?
I don't want anyone to come here and say worm guard/lapelaplata/DLR with Lapel grip etc.. I'm talking about odd, more subtle things
Give an example of what you mean. I'm trying to follow but not sure I see what you mean by a grip being unrealistic but also excluding worm guard and other things at the same time. 
I think every square inch of the Gi can and should be exploited; If Jiu-Jitsu is an art and the mat is the canvas, then the Gi must be the paint brush. I always felt that the heat, discomfort and unintentional twisting of the Gi during normal wear is part of the discipline of traditional jiu-jitsu, not to mention all the negotiating it takes just to undo an opponent's' grips of the garment. I like that it takes creativity on a micro level, not just positional understanding, to escape certain situations involving the Gi working against you. I love the technicality of it all.
examples like:
-I catch a guillotine. My opponent immediately flails open their gi and starts spreading it over their face/head and its hard to lock my hands together since all the material is deliberately being placed where my hands should be. Especially when they open their lapel and place it over and completely covering your guillotine hand. Now its impossible to lock hands since your hand is in the gi now. This is done very quickly
-I am passing and I get to top half. I flatten my opponent. I take away all the space between us an there is no chance of them pushing my face/chest/necl to bench me off. They hug around me, grab a bunch of material off the back of my gi and are basically trying to do a bench press using only the grips on the back of my gi pulling me off them, with the palms of their hand facing down to my back. Very ineffective since it goes completely against the laws of physics but definitely annoying, especially if they are much bigger than you. Then it does start to work a bit.
-you are on someone's back. they undo their gi and pull it over both sides of their neck, covering their neck for rear naked chokes and such. With these people, I have no problem full powering a bow and arrow over their face but it does hinder your offense when they do this stuff
Can't think of anything else so far but I've been noticing quite a bit lately
Sounds like creative use of the Gi as a defense mechanism; something that doesn't get a lot of attention, unlike attacks using the Gi. I'm actually intrigued at the varied use you described. Definitely not covered in "basics" that I could ever recall. Your peers are getting that from somebody.
circusmonkey - Sounds like creative use of the Gi as a defense mechanism; something that doesn't get a lot of attention, unlike attacks using the Gi. I'm actually intrigued at the varied use you described. Definitely not covered in "basics" that I could ever recall. Your peers are getting that from somebody.
not so sure, I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending.
This also usually happens with guys who are much less experienced with me. Guys on the same level or better than me don't really use tactics like these as their defense is good enough to not resort to stuff like this
"I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending. "
Humble brag is humble
That doesn't sound like they're abusing the gi at all. Sounds like legit, creative defenses that you have a case of the butt hurtz over because you can't ragdoll them as quickly.
RobertKipness - "I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending. "
Humble brag is humble
That doesn't sound like they're abusing the gi at all. Sounds like legit, creative defenses that you have a case of the butt hurtz over because you can't ragdoll them as quickly.
This
Also surprising that you have a problem with someone putting the gi over their face when it's inconvenient to you, then go on to say that you are comfortable putting their gi over their face as you bow and arrow as an offensive technique - as if one is more 'natural' than the other.
Try staying calm and solve the puzzles your training partners give you. It'll be more energy efficient and you'll probably enjoy the vibe of the game more from it.
RobertKipness - "I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending. "
Humble brag is humble
That doesn't sound like they're abusing the gi at all. Sounds like legit, creative defenses that you have a case of the butt hurtz over because you can't ragdoll them as quickly.
sorry, but I didn't mean that to be humble at all. I meant it as a fact, I literally do catch mostly everyone below me about 15+ times a round.
I'm not butthurt over it. I'm really stumped as to how to deal with it as they aren't conventional techniques or defenses anyone really goes over.
When they use spider/worm/lapel guard on me they can slow me down as well but those are established and common systems many people use so defenses against them are also very well known. I can deal with those easier than I can with my dilemma which isn't things many people do
"I literally do catch mostly everyone below me about 15+ times a round"
You sound so bad ass.
Are you a white belt?
mideastgrappler -RobertKipness - "I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending. "
Humble brag is humble
That doesn't sound like they're abusing the gi at all. Sounds like legit, creative defenses that you have a case of the butt hurtz over because you can't ragdoll them as quickly.
sorry, but I didn't mean that to be humble at all. I meant it as a fact, I literally do catch mostly everyone below me about 15+ times a round.
I'm not butthurt over it. I'm really stumped as to how to deal with it as they aren't conventional techniques or defenses anyone really goes over.
When they use spider/worm/lapel guard on me they can slow me down as well but those are established and common systems many people use so defenses against them are also very well known. I can deal with those easier than I can with my dilemma which isn't things many people do
Sounds like you are not a good training partner. Your "job" as a partner and upper belt is to bring the lower belts along, let them get some work in, show them how to counter your moves so that it forces you to plan, B,C, D.
Anyone can tap the lower belts below them, that's not impressive. Bringing them up to speed as quickly as possible will be a greater benefit to them, you and the entire team.
Well said, munk. VU!
Just train no-gi if you don't like it. That's what I do. As long as you train in the gi you basically have to accept that people are going to do all sorts of gi manipulation stuff to stifle and frustrate you.
Munk -mideastgrappler -RobertKipness - "I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending. "
Humble brag is humble
That doesn't sound like they're abusing the gi at all. Sounds like legit, creative defenses that you have a case of the butt hurtz over because you can't ragdoll them as quickly.
sorry, but I didn't mean that to be humble at all. I meant it as a fact, I literally do catch mostly everyone below me about 15+ times a round.
I'm not butthurt over it. I'm really stumped as to how to deal with it as they aren't conventional techniques or defenses anyone really goes over.
When they use spider/worm/lapel guard on me they can slow me down as well but those are established and common systems many people use so defenses against them are also very well known. I can deal with those easier than I can with my dilemma which isn't things many people do
Sounds like you are not a good training partner. Your "job" as a partner and upper belt is to bring the lower belts along, let them get some work in, show them how to counter your moves so that it forces you to plan, B,C, D.
Anyone can tap the lower belts below them, that's not impressive. Bringing them up to speed as quickly as possible will be a greater benefit to them, you and the entire team.
My job is to submit lower belts whenever the opportunity presents itself. It's the only way to rid them of bad habits like reaching inappropriately, exposing their necks, etc. This idea that you are helping someone by "letting them work" is short-sighted and wrong.
How long have you guys been training? I am a brown belt now. 8 years training with 2 years worth of breaks.
When I was a blue belt a world champ black belt LET me sweep him and he LET me pass his guard. I always try my best, but I could NEVER advance my position unless he let me. Other elite level guys have let me work as well.
This thread doesn't seem to be turning out the way the op intended... 
"My job is to submit lower belts whenever the opportunity presents itself. It's the only way to rid them of bad habits like reaching inappropriately, exposing their necks, etc. This idea that you are helping someone by "letting them work" is short-sighted and wrong."
I think you're dead wrong, only smashing lower belts simply feeds the ego. You can help them get rid of bad habits through instruction before, after, and while you roll AND do a little catch and release to reinforce it.
If they are performing a move technically correct, as an advanced belt you know the counters, so how can they progress if you constantly just shut them down, sweep and submit them? If they perform a basic pass technically perfect, isn't it better to let that happen and then work on your escapes, guard retention etc...?
Christophr -When I spar a new guy in standup, I break his nose immediately to let him know to keep his hands up. I liver kick him with the intention of rupturing his liver and breaking ribs to make sure he knows to tuck the armsMunk -mideastgrappler -RobertKipness - "I think its because I'm turning up the intensity on them and they don't want to get tapped 15+ times in a 8 minute round. It feels like they are doing these things out of desperation and instinct after just pure defending. "
Humble brag is humble
That doesn't sound like they're abusing the gi at all. Sounds like legit, creative defenses that you have a case of the butt hurtz over because you can't ragdoll them as quickly.
sorry, but I didn't mean that to be humble at all. I meant it as a fact, I literally do catch mostly everyone below me about 15+ times a round.
I'm not butthurt over it. I'm really stumped as to how to deal with it as they aren't conventional techniques or defenses anyone really goes over.
When they use spider/worm/lapel guard on me they can slow me down as well but those are established and common systems many people use so defenses against them are also very well known. I can deal with those easier than I can with my dilemma which isn't things many people do
Sounds like you are not a good training partner. Your "job" as a partner and upper belt is to bring the lower belts along, let them get some work in, show them how to counter your moves so that it forces you to plan, B,C, D.
Anyone can tap the lower belts below them, that's not impressive. Bringing them up to speed as quickly as possible will be a greater benefit to them, you and the entire team.
My job is to submit lower belts whenever the opportunity presents itself. It's the only way to rid them of bad habits like reaching inappropriately, exposing their necks, etc. This idea that you are helping someone by "letting them work" is short-sighted and wrong.
Letting them work is insane
My 3 year old wanted to ride a bike, I put him on two wheels and pushed him down a huge hill. Training wheels are for trannys.
Jesus man, you sound like a real joy to train with. I'm fortunate enough to train with several world champions and they are the most helpful, humble people you'll ever meet on the mat. Of course they could smash me at anytime in any way they'd like, but they recognize the importance of allowing their students to work, further developing their skills and establishing a successful game plan.
Try looking at your time rolling with lower level belts as an opportunity to not only help them progress, but to work on your weaknesses, playing unfamiliar guards, escapes, etc. and I think you would benefit greatly from that experience.