ADCC just another BJJ tourny now

I was looking through the competitor list cause it keeps changing and I was thinking man this is loaded with BJJ stylists.

I know it was always like that to some degree , but the last few events have taken it to the extreme. I prefer the older events when they actually cared about getting grapplers from other avenues other than BJJ.

Their are tons of Judoka and wrestlers winding down thier amature careers and I think they would be more than receptive to a paycheck . Hell if guys the stature of Nastula and Yoshida are willing to get punched in the face for money I dont think they would turn down a ADCC invite . Imagine Jimmy Pedro vs Jacare or Garcia.

I'd like more sambo players I dont think they have ever had a sambo fias world champion who was in his athletic prime. I know there is some serious money behind ADCC I wish they would use it better.

There are several trials organized all around the world for fighters who want to compete in ADCC. This means that the doors are open to anyone who can prove their worth in submission wrestling, not minding their background.

Maybe you should point your finger to the practioners of other styles than BJJ instead of pointing it at the ADCC organization.

lol @ Jimmy Pedro vs. Garcia

I think this is possibly the best ADCC ever. I personally dont like watching wrestlers in ADCC, that just avoid submissions for the whole event.

However, wrestlers and judoka alike can still qualify the same and compete.

There are plenty of invites in the field. I believe only four spots in each category are through the trials (europe,japan,brazil,us , am I missing one ?) anyway I dont think a olympic medalist is going to enter a trial

I actually would prefere to see the NHB guys taken out some top Judo guys put in, but I dont run Abu Dhabi...

Celita Schutz, 3x US Olympian for Judo won the NA trials and is in the tournament.

There is also some judoka from Dominican Republic in the mens division.

Everyone can also apply for a spot -- maybe wrestlers, judoka and samboists don't apply?

"I believe only four spots in each category are through the trials (europe,japan,brazil,us , am I missing one ?)"

Australia, current champion, (newly added), Africa. So, 7 of the 16 slots are filled before they start inviting.

I'd like to see Barnett in there and rep his style.

Besides giving places to the trial winners they had reserved space on all divisions to give to fighters who didn't win at the trials, but otherwise performed well. Also they have the open application system, so that you can just directly apply for a spot (you just have to have something to back your application up with).

And of course they are reserving spots for champions from previous years.

This basically ends up to the equation that most of the spots are open for people with enough credentials, no matter what their background is. Only a very small number of fighters is directly invited by ADCC. Anyway it shouldn't be a surprise that majority of the fighter at the ADCC have BJJ background, but that just doesn't mean that the other didn't have a change to enter the competition.

could it be that its because bjj'ers make up the huge majority of elite submission grapplers?

Australia, current champion, (newly added), Africa. So, 7 of the 16 slots are filled before they start inviting.

Figure on 7 trials winners, plus previous winner, plus any previous winners (in theory) plus probably 1 more person per qualifying region per weight cat.

some odd invitations in some cats tho.

There is a reason why there are so many BJJ guys in the ADCC tourney. There is no conspiracy or anything. For the kind of event it is, BJJ is typically the best background for these tournaments.

hmmm, im not sure there is a conspiracy, adcc was created/ funded by the sheik, he has a bjj black belt, so im guessing he is biased towards bjj. the rules favour bjj

whereas, if u look at a wrestling tournment, im sure that the majority of guys that dominate those r wrestlers, the rules favour them, follow?

QUOTE "I was looking through the competitor list cause it keeps changing and I was thinking man this is loaded with BJJ stylists.
I know it was always like that to some degree , but the last few events have taken it to the extreme. I prefer the older events when they actually cared about getting grapplers from other avenues other than BJJ."

Simply put you are completely wrong and here is why:

  1. In older events all spots were basically filled based on invites. This meant that you saw fighters based on their name recognition and style they represent. This also meant that you did not see absolutely best fighters competing.

  2. Last two events have used word wide qualifiers. What this means that most of the competitors are from qualifiers and previous years champions. Insignificant and very small amount of spots are filled with invitees.

Basically in order to compete you either have to win last ADCC, place ond or win a qualifiers event. This obviosly means that level of competitors has skyrocketed and that only the best get to compete now. Yes small amount of slots are still filled based on invitees but it is insignifican when major part of slots are filled based on qualifying results.

  1. Reason why you now see less grapplers from other diciplines than BJJ is very simple and very logical, althought it is hard for some people to accept the truth. Fighters from other diciplines than BJJ have hard time winning qualifiers and getting a spot to compete. They do well but get outpointed and in most case tapped in later rounds. BJJ seems to be the best single graooling style.

I have personally seen international level Judokas and Wrestlers participate in ADCC qualifiers. Yes they did well using the rules to their advantage but in the end lost to fighters representing BJJ.

QUOTE: "Their are tons of Judoka and wrestlers winding down thier amature careers and I think they would be more than receptive to a paycheck."

Well problem is that while these "tons of grapplers" are all good grapplers arts they represent dont offer them necessary tools to place or win in ADCC qualifiers. (Yes some of them do place but this has more to do with them being superior athlethes and professionals while most of teh BJJ guys competing are recreational level enthusiasts).

Just something I have myself witnessed whan watching high level Judokas and Wrestlers compete in ADCC qualifiers.

"Hell if guys the stature of Nastula and Yoshida are willing to get punched in the face for money I dont think they would turn down a ADCC invite."

Point is ADCC is seriously cutting down number of invetees and has been doing that for last few events. They are now using qualifiers and heading down the path to cut all invitees alltogether and go full qualifiers. If Nastula or Yoshida want to get a shot to win some money at ADCC they are more than welcome to participate in any qualifier and try to win a spot in main event. If as you say they are so willing to get punched in to the face for money and all etc. then for sure doing a simple qualifier even would not be big deal for them.

"Imagine Jimmy Pedro vs Jacare or Garcia."

Well Camarillo caught Pedro with an arm bar and would have tapped him if the ref had not called matte. Later on Mr. camarillo made comment on how Pedro uses bad technique to defend simple arm bar. With all respect Pedro would get schooled o nthe mat by both Jacare and Garcia. Standing up Pedro is as superios as in the ground Jacare and Garcia are superior to Pedro.

"I'd like more sambo players I dont think they have ever had a sambo fias world champion who was in his athletic prime."

Huh they are all welcome to enter the qualifiers. We have seen some high level sambo figther competing and they while they did well they failed to win.

"I know there is some serious money behind ADCC I wish they would use it better."

They use it well making teh event serious by cutting down the number of BS invitees. Why do you wish for more BS invitees?

If any Judo, Sambo, Wrestler or whatever grappler wishes to compete they hey they are all free to enter the qualifying process and EARN THEIR SPOT TO COMPETE.

Everyone needs to shut up about feeling entitlet to get invited. Enter the qualifiers or shut the fuck up. This shit is starting to piss me off.

It's still just a no-gi BJJ tourney. there are plenty of other styles they could have modified to get the rules. For instance, they could have made it more similar to a no-gi Judo/Sambo tourney where one can win by throw, submission, or pin.

BJJ guys clean up there because the rules are most similar to what they specialize in. Notice that BJJ guys don't do nearly as well in Sambo (Russian), Wrestling, or Judo as they do in no-gi BJJ tourney's.

Um, wrestling, sambo, and Judo's rules are more specialized for their sports than BJJ's rules are for BJJ. ADCC has pretty agnostic rules, not giving wins just because you're good at pins or takedowns. Not penalizing for grabbing the legs for long periods of times, not penalizing for extended two-on-one grips, allowing no-gi, etc... Your proposal actually gives BJJ an unfair disadvantage compared with the others.

"Um, wrestling, sambo, and Judo's rules are more specialized for their sports than BJJ's rules are for BJJ"

What that doesn't even make sense. It would be like saying rugby rules are more specialized for rugby than football rules are for football. The rules make the sport, period.

"ADCC has pretty agnostic rules, not giving wins just because you're good at pins or takedowns."

BS. Out of the five major grappling styles (freestyle/greco, folkstyle, judo, sambo, and bjj) you can win by pin in 4 of them. In two of them you can win by takedown or throw. 4 of them have a point scale relating to the type/effectiveness of a takedown. 4 of them involve standups in stalemate ground situations. 4 of them have point systems that can end a match due to domination.

In only one of them is the only way to win (besides points) submission... and that's BJJ. Only one of them gives points for passing the guard. Only one of them gives points for moving from position to position on the ground (side control to mount to back etc). ADCC is a no-gi BJJ tourney, no question about it.

"Your proposal actually gives BJJ an unfair disadvantage compared with the others. "

The disadvantage to all other styles in ADCC is far larger than a BJJer in a no-gi Judo/Sambo style tourney. If you watch any Judo, Sambo, or wrestling you'll see that they are basically centered upon takedowns (folkstyle having the most ground work) whereas BJJ and ADCC are not. Clearly anyone who has been training for those wrestling styles needs heavy modification of their training to compete in ADCC not so with BJJers. Other than losing the gi it's largely the same.

If someone wanted to make a tourney fair for all styles then it would be more like:

  1. No time limit on groundwork (Folkstyle/BJJ).
  2. Can win by choke, armbar, leglock, wristlock, or neck crank or other tap out not related to eye-gouging, biting etc.
  3. Can win by pin for 60 seconds (can switch pins if you like)
  4. I like their current rules on pulling guard results in negative points.
  5. The takedowns would have a point scale probably similar to freestyle with high amplitude throws counting more than regular singles and double.
  6. Can win by takedown domination (i.e. several hihg-amplitude throws or many low-amp takedowns)

Some appreciations:

  • Actual Submission wrestling 'was invented' in Brasil by Bjjers that wanted something more spectacular. Everybody forget it.

  • Generally, people from Bjj use to be a bit more open mind. I mean, if they have to improve their wrestling or judo skills, they enter tournaments and take classes to improve.

What i want to arguee? People from Submission or Bjj tends to be more open mind and likes to learn new arts and ways of training. Is not the same at viceversa.

Personally i dont see people like Jimmy Pedro, the best in the world in his sport, being tapped in a trial. Thats the reason the best in others sports (wrestling, judo or sambo) doesnt enter Bjj or Submission tournaments. Is normal. They are specialized in their sport.

  • Nowdays, ADCC is open mind. I mean, they have modified the rules to be in FILA world (wrestling).

DominatorBG

"The disadvantage to all other styles in ADCC is far larger than a BJJer in a no-gi Judo/Sambo style tourney."

You are absolutely true. And? Remember that submission tournaments are submission oriented. If Bjj rules are the closest to submission rules, its not its fault. Its oriented for mma and street fighting, not sport oriented.

DominatorBG, it isn't just about pinning. Judo refs discourage groundwork and awards for the guy who was stalling on the ground. The rules disallow takedowns to the belly - giving no points whatsoever for that and even penalizing in extreme circumstances. Judo's rules discourage many of the strategies that both BJJer and wrestlers often use. It is highly tuned to promoting Kano's philosophy on fighting, and is very biased towards judoka rather than other styles.

Wrestling disallowed submission and dangerous holds over a period of time. It is common and even encouraged playing for points. A pin counts no matter how your shoulders touch the mat. They have a more liberal philosophy about throws, and depending on the style of wrestling, is less in favor of judoka's skills. There's only one way to win a match (other than techs): the pin. By your logic, the rules of wrestling discourage judoka and BJJers.

BJJ's rules are extremely submission oriented. There is one way to win a match (other than techs): submissions. How is this different from wrestling except with a different focus? How can you blame them either? Pins are not the end all judoka make them out to be, and most wrestlers who enter BJJ tournaments aren't as focused on pins as you are. The only things I dislike abut BJJ's rules is passing the guard (should be points for judo-style pins instead) and takedowns (tho I can live with pulling guard as no-points - as long as he initiated the takedown).

Even so, ADCC gives points for effectively pinning. WTF do you think passing the guard means? That you end up pinning the person. (Personally I feel guard pulling should give a few points to the other guy, and that a takedown to side control should award points for passing the guard too, but its close enough.) Next you'll be complaining that they don't award wins for pushing the other guy out of the match. After all, sumo and many wrestling styles award wins for pushouts or touching the floor. Maybe we should make that a way to win too? Don't be silly.

This is submission wrestling. It isn't wrestling or judo or BJJ. The goal is a submission. Pins discourage submissions and encourage stalling. A pin does not mean the end of a match in this sport, and it never has. Your idea is stupid.

yeah wow lol

Let's make MORE RULES so that other grappling styles have a change to compete.

Seems like the less rules there are the more dominant style BJJ is :))