Aging and sadness in BJJ

judom2 - I think the fundamental problem with BJJ is the lack of separation of competitors vs. non-competitors. This is also made worse by a lot of schools which 'want to compete', yet 99.99% of people training BJJ are not real athletes, in the sense of competitive athlete, yet they want to 'compete and tap someone'. This is a real problem.

In Judo/Wrestling for instance, real athlete means, 2-3x daily training, people who started at age 6 and by 20 are solid competitors. By 23, most retire. Then they coach, help others, etc. Nobody thinks they can train the same way at 38 as they did at 17. And nobody cares.

BJJ is not like that, it lacks the community aspect and layers of involvement. It lacks this structure. You have people starting at 19 (!) and then think they are somehow real athletes and competitors, and this gets mixed in with the rest of the crowd.

99.99% of people I trained with in BJJ are not athletes, even though they compete a lot and somehow think they are. Then they train hard with non-competitors, who get affected, etc. Its a real mess IMO and it leads to older people being disappointed, etc.

I don’t know who managed to convince people that starting a sport at 18 and competing in some event, that somehow they are an athlete. That is total confusion.

Wow that’s on one side of the discussion one of the best posts I’ve read about the state of sport bjj… Key to note there’s a ton of money in tournaments for the sanctioning bodies, promoters, athletes who are winners and gym owners and even academy owners with large competition teams

Bjj isn’t a pro sport and even when it becomes one in more regards there will still be a world masters with 1000 hardcore 40+ year olds waiting for thier shot at a age specific title … Smart and unique from other sports

Claude Patrick -
HotSteppa - 
Claude Patrick - the sport and the martial art are 2 different things for sure and the funny thing is there are way more people who would benefit from the art than do the sport but for some reason they we just cant get organized.

id say change how you train and maybe where youd be shocked at the diversity out there in terms of programs but with the sport being so well organized its taken the name of the art and become the public face…

you talk bjj today that means leg locks and bolo’s not fight applicable concepts for the most part.

time to change that…

I’ve said it before too much opposition on here, most older people just need Gracie University stuff and light training as well as most non-competition practitioners too. Focus should also be on learning an art, training made to minimize long-term degradation of the body. There is no point training “hard” if you are not competing. It will simply wreck the body. You are going to get steam-rolled by competitors who are in better shape, younger, train more, and know the latest moves you haven’t seen, so why worry about it? A belt that doesn’t compete is not the same as a competition belt and should be treated differently since the objectives are different.

In Judo, most older people don’t get belts for competition. Most older participants focus on helping with instruction, focus on kata, Judo philosophy, and being part of a community. No one will ever say to a 50 year old, “hey, you get beaten regularly by green belts” or other such BS I see in BJJ. It’s ridiculous.

Most people do not need the latest sport BJJ moves, and in some ways I think it really limits their understanding of the art.

Just my perspective and I stick by it.

i agree but the gracie’s are not and have neveer been the only people offering jiujitsu in its entirety … the pressure now just really seems on because of the great job and growth the sportive side of the art is doing expanding world wide gi no gi and even mma

but the martial art is treated like a pet rock that can never change or needs the gracie stamp before any move be made :slight_smile: dont get me wrong i love what they are doing but no one is bigger than the art

I agree, but from my perspective the GU curriculum is the best there is for "regular" or older people. It is highly structured, and complete.

I’ve seen nothing better so far, and I’ve seen a lot. Most make promises but in the end it defaults to hard training meant for 20 year olds. I knew someone who went to the Gracie academy years ago, and was shocked at the amount of "regular" people there, including older people. He stated ha had not really seen that elsewhere. Typically it was a few older guys and a couple girls thrown to the wolves. But at GA the whole training vibe was different and highly structured. Sure, none are going to be world beaters, but the big difference he saw was the amount of people training and the diversity across age, sex, and not just 20 year old athletes.

Just my thoughts. 

Dudes. I love you. I’m 40. Got promoted to black belt at 38. I started BJJ in 2005. I feel like it was the beginning of a shift - from the old school way to whatever it was then - to what it is now. I loved it then and I love it now!

No disrespect. 

it’s just age. People change. The crowd gets younger. Technology spreads the information everywhere instantly. The old school Gracie’s were pissed about half guard and too much collar sleeve. You just didn’t have the same perspective then. 

You wake up and realize the thing you loved so much and sacrificed your body for changed right beneath you. And you know what, you’d feel the same way if you spent that same amount of time growing Walnut trees instead. You wanted to train hard when you were young. It was what made Jiu-Jitsu real. 

You’re a real martial artist. Put your gi back on and represent so the youngsters have some OG knowdelge and wisdom to draw from. It’s the final test of putting your ego aside and holding the line. 

Joe, you started at 16 years old? Wow, I’m jealous. I started “training” in my brother’s basement with some of his friends after he showed me UFC 2. I was 40 then and I’m 62 now.

I consider myself a hobbyist, I was never what I would call a competitive BJJ’er. I’ve only competed once and that was about a year into training. Even so, until my early to mid 50’s I was one of the tougher grapplers at my gym and can still hold my own against most non-competitive practitioners when I want to.

I have to say though, I’ve never cared about getting tapped and after receiving my black belt four years ago, I care even less. It’s just not that important to me. I don’t worry about the new inverted this and flying that. I just play my game. I roll because I enjoy it and I want to enjoy it well into my 70’s so I do what I can to minimize injuries. That means listening to my body, rolling light, tapping early and often and avoiding spazzers.

C’est la vie… started at 28, (almost) 41 year old brown belt now. I had to stop competing over 5 years ago when I became a dad. Younger students are running circles around me now. I can’t pull off most of the more dynamic or flexible moves and rely on the same 3 sweeps and passes. But I don’t care really, I just try to stay in the moment and enjoy the “zen” of rolling. Trying to find that balance between rolling (hard) and staying in shape without ruining my body. Seen so many guys my age destroy their bodies. It’s a tough balance. But BJJ is still fun to me and I greatly appreciate the comaraderie. When I skip trainings for more than a week, half of my repertoire already doesn’t seem to be working anymore and the 23 year old white belt I crushed the other week is now leg dragging me and taking my back, what the hell. Lol that’s the beauty of it all.

I think most important is just enjoy the learning aspect and find reliable training partners to roll with, and at the same time realize there is more to life than just BJJ so you don’t get burned out when that disappears. I do sometimes get sick of my own lack of progress, or the bullshit of the younger generation. But than the next time I learn some cool shit or have a great roll and lie there heaving on the mat and staring at the ceiling thinking this is what it feels to be alive.

tf1 - Dudes. I love you. I'm 40. Got promoted to black belt at 38. I started BJJ in 2005. I feel like it was the beginning of a shift - from the old school way to whatever it was then - to what it is now. I loved it then and I love it now!

No disrespect.

it’s just age. People change. The crowd gets younger. Technology spreads the information everywhere instantly. The old school Gracie’s were pissed about half guard and too much collar sleeve. You just didn’t have the same perspective then.

You wake up and realize the thing you loved so much and sacrificed your body for changed right beneath you. And you know what, you’d feel the same way if you spent that same amount of time growing Walnut trees instead. You wanted to train hard when you were young. It was what made Jiu-Jitsu real.

You’re a real martial artist. Put your gi back on and represent so the youngsters have some OG knowdelge and wisdom to draw from. It’s the final test of putting your ego aside and holding the line.

Awesome post.

i think the sadness is related to aging more than anything else. while it’s true that BJJ has become a little silly, i think that even if it had stayed old school you would have still been sad when you finally had to give it up.

this unfortunately happens in pretty much every sport. same thing happened when i gave up boxing. same thing when i gave up basketball. at least with BJJ you can stay competitive for longer. but even with BJJ you will eventually have to walk away.

shen -

Everyone has NOSTALGIA for then THEY first started...

I just turned 49 and started BJJ in the mid 1990s. I have my own "feels" about that era and a strong belief that in the 90's BJJ was at it's zenith, before it started getting a little too goofy with some of the sport-only moves.

But, I've heard people wax poetic about when THEY began BJJ in the 2000s or after 2010. To them that was the "cool" era because back then________________.(Fill in the blank).

Yeah, we're ALL  nostalgic for when we started and most of us, to some degree, also seem to lament changes to the art, no matter when it is that  we began. That's just how people are wired.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is true too.

I started in the mid 00's and I have a lot of nostalgia for that period where the game started getting way more complex and in depth. It was a fun time to train and a fun time to be on forums like this.

I'm in my mid 30's and maybe waiting later to start a family is a part of it but I never had many points where I fell out of love with the art or felt a big longing that it could be how it used to be.

I like trying to stay on top of what's going on but man it sure does move fast now. With other things in life being more time consuming and important it's easy to feel like you're behind. I train with a few green belts and they've been doing shit on day one that I didn't learn until well into blue belt.

tapnaporsnapbro - i think the sadness is related to aging more than anything else. while it's true that BJJ has become a little silly, i think that even if it had stayed old school you would have still been sad when you finally had to give it up.

this unfortunately happens in pretty much every sport. same thing happened when i gave up boxing. same thing when i gave up basketball. at least with BJJ you can stay competitive for longer. but even with BJJ you will eventually have to walk away.

I think it would be cool to have programs for people over 30, 40, etc.

I really love rolling now mostly with other people in their 30's or with kids that are early teens that have a lot of technique (like green belts that would probably be adult purples) but are still young enough to where they don't have all their adult strength yet. 

I hate to kick someone when they are feeling down but the sentiments at the end of the post seem more like projecting personal insecurities from losing interest in jiu jitsu than entirely valid critiques. If there were one thing in jiu jitsu I could go without, it is people that cant invert their body talking about punching their way out of a berimbolo (of course not realizing the exact same things were aid to disparage the closed guard when they started).

Im currently two weeks into my second surgery on the same shoulder, just dying waiting to get back on the mat (and podium) to proveto myself  that i still have some left in me

Anyone have a link to the rorian academy closing thing? I'm interested to read

Combat sports are not for people under 40 years of age. IMO.

mata_leaos -
shen -

Everyone has NOSTALGIA for then THEY first started...

I just turned 49 and started BJJ in the mid 1990s. I have my own "feels" about that era and a strong belief that in the 90's BJJ was at it's zenith, before it started getting a little too goofy with some of the sport-only moves.

But, I've heard people wax poetic about when THEY began BJJ in the 2000s or after 2010. To them that was the "cool" era because back then________________.(Fill in the blank).

Yeah, we're ALL  nostalgic for when we started and most of us, to some degree, also seem to lament changes to the art, no matter when it is that  we began. That's just how people are wired.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is true too.

I started in the mid 00's and I have a lot of nostalgia for that period where the game started getting way more complex and in depth. It was a fun time to train and a fun time to be on forums like this.

I'm in my mid 30's and maybe waiting later to start a family is a part of it but I never had many points where I fell out of love with the art or felt a big longing that it could be how it used to be.

I like trying to stay on top of what's going on but man it sure does move fast now. With other things in life being more time consuming and important it's easy to feel like you're behind. I train with a few green belts and they've been doing shit on day one that I didn't learn until well into blue belt.

Very, very, very true. Jiu jitsu is progressing at warp speed (probably due to the increased familiarity and professionalism). Basically the Mendes Bros era started to really show us whats possible with super dedicated study and drilling rather than focusing mainly on sparring

speaking of aging grapplers, does anybody know how old school guys in their 50s are these days? guys like royler, fabio gurgel or rigan? what about guys into their 40s like saulo and leo vieira?

are these guys who grew up on the mats still rolling 4-5 times a week? or have they slowed things down significantly?

tapnaporsnapbro - speaking of aging grapplers, does anybody know how old school guys in their 50s are these days? guys like royler, fabio gurgel or rigan? what about guys into their 40s like saulo and leo vieira?

are these guys who grew up on the mats still rolling 4-5 times a week? or have they slowed things down significantly?

Leo is running Checkmat HQ. I’m not there, but just via social media I see him on the mat constantly teaching and being directly involved with jiu jitsu. He doesnt seem “old” and I’d be surprised if he wasn’t training a fair amount.

Ive trained a lot with his brother Ricardinho, who doesn’t roll much when he is as teaching class in Rio (I believe due to accrued injuries and stuff) but one day I guess he felt like it and called me over to train. He absolutely thrashed me while hardly breaking a sweat.

tapnaporsnapbro - speaking of aging grapplers, does anybody know how old school guys in their 50s are these days? guys like royler, fabio gurgel or rigan? what about guys into their 40s like saulo and leo vieira?

are these guys who grew up on the mats still rolling 4-5 times a week? or have they slowed things down significantly?

I know guys like Jean Jacques Machado still roll a lot. I think he's late 40's or early 50's.

I'm not there yet so I can't speak on it because I'm only mid 30's but I see a lot of people in my area rolling a lot in their 40's and 50's. There are 3 guys that are purple or brown in their 50's in my city and they all roll at least a few times a week and are happy and improving. One even has a major berimbolo style. The things they all have in common are good nutrition, and they take a lot of time to warm up and cool down. There's even 2 people in their early 60s that roll every class although not as hard.

I would assume that a lot of guys you mentioned if they've slowed down just don't prefer roll balls to the wall as much anymore. In Brazil it's common to see a lot of older black belts using it as a social club of sorts. They roll a little bit too but they also just hang out a lot.

I have always liked rolling very hard but in the past two years I've found myself enjoying less hard rolls than I did in my 20's and early 30's.

I love refining technique and improving and maybe it's just wishful thinking but I think if you aren't too banged up that you can roll for a long time in life if you are smart about your training, take legit time off for injuries, eat clean, sleep well, and life a healthy lifestyle. I realize that all of that is easier said than done.

kennyfrommd - 
mata_leaos -
shen -

Everyone has NOSTALGIA for then THEY first started...

I just turned 49 and started BJJ in the mid 1990s. I have my own "feels" about that era and a strong belief that in the 90's BJJ was at it's zenith, before it started getting a little too goofy with some of the sport-only moves.

But, I've heard people wax poetic about when THEY began BJJ in the 2000s or after 2010. To them that was the "cool" era because back then________________.(Fill in the blank).

Yeah, we're ALL  nostalgic for when we started and most of us, to some degree, also seem to lament changes to the art, no matter when it is that  we began. That's just how people are wired.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this is true too.

I started in the mid 00's and I have a lot of nostalgia for that period where the game started getting way more complex and in depth. It was a fun time to train and a fun time to be on forums like this.

I'm in my mid 30's and maybe waiting later to start a family is a part of it but I never had many points where I fell out of love with the art or felt a big longing that it could be how it used to be.

I like trying to stay on top of what's going on but man it sure does move fast now. With other things in life being more time consuming and important it's easy to feel like you're behind. I train with a few green belts and they've been doing shit on day one that I didn't learn until well into blue belt.

Very, very, very true. Jiu jitsu is progressing at warp speed (probably due to the increased familiarity and professionalism). Basically the Mendes Bros era started to really show us whats possible with super dedicated study and drilling rather than focusing mainly on sparring

I agree that they were sort of the catalyst that pushed things forward big time. It also helped that their rise to dominance coincided with the youtube/social media/smartphone boom. Rafa I would argue was the first 'superstar' in the bjj world for that reason (if such a thing exists).

My hope for us aging grapplers is that we can hop on this trend of rolling mostly with lower belts or really good juvenilles and be able to roll for a long time without getting worn into the ground. Hopefully advancements in medicine can help too.

I hope the recovery from shoulder surgery goes well for you. I'm sure you'll do great man!

 

 

my coach is a former world champ that is I believe turning 50 this year. he still rolls hard at least three times a week…he might roll more than that but those are the only days I can make the day classes (when he rolls). but to add to what mata_leaos said, he eats ultra clean. never eats junk food and doesn’t drink.

cutting out alcohol, drinking water, eating clean, properly treating injuries, fish oil and essential fats, and stretching a lot more than rolling will help. also taiji will help as well as yoga.

it depends on whether one enjoys alcohol or drugs more than training .

As a 39 year old purple belt this thread makes

me depressed.