Maybe I should ask this in the main forum...I dont know....I studied aiki jitsu in high school. I was young and in reflection I think my instructor was a bit of a joke....but now Ive been involved in grappling arts for the last few years (bjj, judo, wrestling, sambo) I love anything that has to do with grappling.
What I remember from 3 years of hard aikijitsu study was some descent self defense techniques but a lot of let your partner do it to you and go with the flow leading techniques. We never sparred! We couldnt do the moves on each other like that....it would tear your arm out of joint...ect...we were told.
So my love of grappling has me reviewing Aikido history too. I watch old videos of aikidos founder and others, and I see what I still believe are students going through prearranged techniques. Seagals Path Beyond Thought video was the first time Ive ever seen Aikido students do a type of sparring drill...and even I thought that they had limited styles of prearranged attacks....and Seagal isnt traditional in his teaching...he gears it for the street.
So to sum it all up....has "anybody" here actually been tossed around by an aikido guy. Not as an aikido student. In a sparring or fighting mode? Thanks in advance.....
I would like to hear any "real" stories as well, I used to do aikido but it
was all prearranged, I've never actually seen it applied in a
spontaneous sparring or street situation though.
A guy I worked with who studied Yoshinkan for over a decade used to be a bouncer (5'4 little chinese guy in a redneck bar) and KOed a guy with a shihonage. A friend of mine studied aikido for over 7 years in Japan. He got in a confrontation with a US soldier over there and broke the guy's arm.
My girlfriend and I tried some Hapkido (an offshoot of daito-ryu aiki jujutsu) before and learned some basic escapes from grabs. Once time I grabbed her and she did a move at almost full force and she almost broke my wrist. It was a sweet move.
Anyone see these videos? I'm curious to see an MMA guy's approach to Aikido.
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/search.php?substring=combat+aikido
Seagals Path Beyond Thought video was the first time Ive ever seen Aikido students do a type of sparring drill...and even I thought that they had limited styles of prearranged attacks....and Seagal isnt traditional in his teaching...he gears it for the street. I attended a Seagal seminar (week long in Santa Monica, CA...back in the day). What Seagal taught was the same as what any other shihan I've seen taught. That is to say, he didn't do anything different, nor was the training method any different. Talking to his students, I don't believe that the seminar was "watered down" in any way. Seagal may have changed his approach between then and when "Path Beyond Thought" was released, but I doubt it.Further, my understanding is that Seagal no longer instructs students directly --- the only possible exception would be his top students. However, I understand that there has been some sort of separation between Seagal and his former top students, Larry Reynosa and Haruo Matsuoka, but I'm not sure of the details.The point is, I don't know how someone could train with Seagal. At best they might train with someone who is Seagal's student, but I would not know who Seagal's current students are.Finally, Tomiki Style aikido (Shodokan Aikido) has always had "sparring" (randori) as part of their training method. On that basis alone, I would suspect they are much better prepared than most.
i'm embarrassed to say that i studied daito-ryu aikijujitsu for 7 years
I never have sparred with an aikido practioner that really have pushed me to my limits but I do believe that there is some out there that really do know how to hold there own against someone that has a backgrond in realistic martial training.
One of them is one of my all time favorite mixed martial artists and thats a fighter by the name OF jason Delucia. Jason did not start MMA an Aikido practioner but got exposed to it in japan while training for a japanese MMA organization called Pancrase. He fell in love with aikido and combined his Knowledge of MMA with aikido, forming an true aikido randori style. You can go to his website and view him training in his style of Aikido, one of my favorite video clips one that shows his defence to the low kick using aikido. Check out his website at www.Aikidog.com
ttt
by the way, jason is coming out with a new combat aikido dvd series heres the listing
Combat Aikido with Jason DeLucia DVD 1: Competitive Entries
Instruction includes body movement such as slide step, enter and turn, step enter and turn, first control boxing, traditional pin, third control follow-up, inside first control four directions throw, traditional entry throw, competitive form, and cup and saucer variation. Also includes a variety of entry drills.
Combat Aikido with Jason DeLucia DVD 2: Attack - Counter Attack
Instruction inlcludes rotating entry first control techniques such as rotating body movement, hip throw, hip throw third control, four directions throw, elbow throw, rotating side entry throw, twisting entry strike, wizer and under hook arm throw, floating training and sabaki techniques.
Combat Aikido with Jason DeLucia DVD 3: Mat Work the Ancient Way
Includes randori free sparring demonstration, seated breath power, Aiki Age, Kata Guruma, traditional first control, first control entry throw, first control clinch, first control entry throw clinch, Tsuki Irimi, Tsuki Irimi Kaeshi, first control guard pass, and third control choke escape.
Combat Aikido with Jason DeLucia DVD 4: Classic Submissions
Instruction includes first control chicken wing and neck crank, entry throw crooked leg head scissor, arm lock, arm bar, Kami Shiho Ude Garami, first control guard pass neck crank, guard hammer lock, toe hold, wrist return control, and four directions to third control.
Combat Aikido with Jason DeLucia DVD 5: Striking Throws
Instruction includes triangular entry; base line theory; front, turning, and triangular entry throws; entering throws; waki gatame; variation wrist throw and side entry; shoulder strike side entry throw; high collar elbow throw; first control; and mountain storm and four directions double sleeve thigh throw.
also check out these clips of jason sparring with his student useing strikes in unison with the aikido footwork
http://www.aikidog-sales.com/aikicenter/modules.php?name=AikiClips&op=show&pid=62
http://www.aikidog-sales.com/aikicenter/modules.php?name=AikiClips&op=show&pid=63
One of the sgt's at my dept was a blackbelt in Aikido and used it alot in the jail/road. I talked with some of his instructors students and one of them was a "streetfighter" for lack of a better term and he went around to all the local schools he could find and then would challenge them because he wanted to learn MA but not from someone he could beat. He wasn't able to beat the aikido guy and started studying it and eventually earned his blackbelt.
Punisher73, that Sgt's last name isn't Headings is it? I trained with him for awhile when I was living in Michigan. We had a student named Tony who'd come in once and challenged our sensei (Dr. Crapo) in just such a manner.
He was humbled and then came back for lessons about two weeks later. He ended up being a really nice guy. He claimed that training in Aikido (and the philosophy of the art) had helped him to mature.
I believe that against any trained fighter, Aikido isn't all that effective. Not only does it take a long...... time to get proficient in it, but there are weaknesses in the style itself.
Trained strikers throw in combinations and dont over committ to their punches and kicks either, so they are hard to counter using strictly Aikido techniques.
Trained grapplers (Judokas, Wrestlers, etc..) might not know exactly what you're trying to set up, but they are very sensitive to the off balance (kizushi) and will automatically adjust to it. Thus taking away your techniques.
Aikido is not designed to be used on trained fighters though, and most trained fighters do not go around starting fights either, so it's not really an issue.
I have used Aikido techniques, and the "principles" of Aikido, on the job (LEO) and on my drunken, asshole buddies when they start up with "Come on man... show me some of that ninja, kung fu shit that you do..." with great effectiveness lol.
When I was a blue belt in jjj, I tried randori with an aikido green belt. It was abysmal - I couldn't throw him, we couldn't lock each other standing.
Went and trained intensely with a hardcore judo club for 6 months, tried again. He flew, but I could not lock him standing.
Since then I've switched to a style oriented to sparring, including with standing locks. I've since managed to standing lock a 3rd dan in aikido in sparring, but it wasn't Tomoiki.
I've sparred a little with this 8th Dan in Tomiki, much tougher. Also a high ranking aikijujutsuka, also very tough. These guys both x-trained quite a bit tho.
chadk
The instructor is Dr. Crapo, but the Sgt's last name was Morgan that I worked with.
Tell Dr. Crapo that Chad says hello will you? Also, Bronson, Dr. Greg, Dave, Tim and anyone else who remembers me. You train in Kalamazoo or Battle Creek?
Neither, I just know some people there in the BC dojo. I work with another deputy who still trains there I will pass on the message to him.
"Aikido" and "truthful" in the same sentence?
Har, har...
I know some telemarketers who are nice. What's your point?
Aikidoka are notorious for believing all the mumbo jumbo that goes along with asian martial arts; ki and all that crap.
Go to the aikido forums and you'll get all that.
The physical aspect depends on who you train with, but for the most part I rate it right up there with Tai Chi. Nice to have but of no major value.
Even the shotokan tag fighters, and I've been one of them, can kick aikido ass.
i have plenty of personal anecdotes on those lines. All of them go like this:
Aikidoka does not know how to deal effectively with a striking oponent who moves around.
Samatikan, I would repeat the point that I made before in an earlier post on this thread....
"Aikido is not designed to be used on trained fighters though, and most trained fighters do not go around starting fights either, so it's not really an issue."
What point were you trying to make on this thread? Has anyone here claimed that Aikido was the ultimate style, to beat all other styles? If so... I missed that post.
Jahz asked for "Truthful Experience" and it seems to me that he's been getting just that. The story about my old instructor (Dr. Crapo) is true. Notice how I knew the story, and who it was about, when Punisher73 mentioned it?
I boxed in my youth and was training in jujitsu at Southside Dojo in Michigan at the same time I was training Aikido. Dr. Crapo was also a Nidan (Maybe it was Shodan) in Judo, Jim Thompson was the highest ranking Uechi Karate Master in the USA, had his own successfull dojo, and was a Shodan in Aikido under Dr. Crapo, Dave Lakey was a Nidan in Isshin Ryu, and many other students (it's been 4 years, cant remember all the names)there had advanced ranks in various styles.
All of us trained Aikido for various reasons. Age and/or injuries brought some of them over from their original arts. Some liked the principles and the mindset, some were curious, etc.. One thing I respected about our instructor was that he was open to hearing others point out flaws in a certain techniques ("that leaves you open to a kick, etc..") and would then look for a way to tighten it up.
None of them ever said "If you use your Aikido right, no one can beat you" or anything like that. Not once was the art portrayed as anything more than something to be used only if all attempts to deflect and avoid conflict had failed. (we actually "practiced" talking our way out of trouble in class also) What's wrong with that?
I would love to still be training in Aikido, but unfortunately, prices in Denver are much higher than they were in Michigan. Economics forced me to choose the more immediately effective style for now.
Once I get to the point where I cant physically keep up at my present school, I will probably return to Aikido. Training in something is better than not training at all.
Chadk, I'm not replying to you.
Besides i made ONE comment and you write a novel. WTF?
I know I'm a great writer, but I still don't think I said enough to warrant that much of a reply.
Here it is like you were a 5 year-old:
I made a mocking remark.
Although not perfectly clear, the meaning was "truth and aikido don't mix" for the reasons I stated in my subsequent post.
Those being the beliefs that aikidoka generally cling to for dear life, in the mental aspect. And the fact that it doesn't work, on the physical aspect.
The other guy comes back with an "ok" response because he is being defensive.
I still think he didn't make a good stand because "aikidoka being nice people" is not relevant, so I explained.
In general, aikido sucks. Are there "good" artists out there? Sure. But they are in the very tiny minority.
I would rather do Tai Chi, by the way.
But back to the point in case you missed it again: Aikido and truth don't mix well.
I understood your post bro. I was trying to point out that not all Aikidoka believe in, or even want to be bothered with all the mystical mumbo jumbo. I have run into these types as well and have little patience for them. Aikido was a hobby for me, and not a religion lol.
Also, although I addressed you in my last post, it was more directed at others who might cross this thread, in hopes of illustrating that not all Aikido schools are complete bullshit. I also hoped that you would ackowledge that not all schools base their teachings on such nonsense as described above.
Would a one year BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing, or Judo guy destroy most Aikidoka? Certainly. Does that mean that there's nothing good in Aikido or that it's completely worthless? No. Funny thing, my Aikido instructor was the one who suggested I take up jujitsu, as he thought I could use it in my line of work. (How cool of him was that???)
In all honesty, I will admit to being a bit thin skinned on this subject, because I've gotten so much shit from people for having trained Aikido for so long (4+ years). They cant seem to appreciate that I enjoyed the classes, the people I learned under and from's company, that I learned about much more than just Aikido from many of them (because of the many other styles represented), and that much of what I learned has been very usefull to me in my professional life.
I wasn't trying to go off on you in my post. If it came across that way I apologize.
Hey, I did shotokan (still do sometimes) for quite a few years and people make fun of me for that too, so I know what it's like.
But I admit that *most* shotokan places are sport-oriented and would have no concept of what 'karate' really is. Any boxer would dance circles and pepper their nose all day and night.