After the big debate re bridging recently on Scott Sonnon's forum I was wondering what the take was on the benefits (or otherwise) of gymnastic style bridges with the neck NOT presssured at all. Movements such as the the reverse pushup, holding the gymnastic bridge to develop static strength, as well as the progressions thereafter, such as the walk over, or falling into a bridge from standing.
Does this position not pose the same type of problems in the lower back area (such as compression & 'squeezing' synovial fluid out of the places where it is required the most)as the nose to floor bridge?
Someone suggested that slow progression was the key but I argued that compression will occur REGARDLESS of how fast or slow one progresses the movement.
As a fighter the benefits of having a strong flexible back are obvious BUT from a health standpoint what is the consensus view? I think it's important to use the body from all positions & angles BUT not if after a few yrs it leads to spinal problems.
I know there are some practising gymnasts lurking around here somewhere, would be interested in their opinion, & anyone elses ....
First let me state that I am FAR from an authority on this topic but I have followed on Coach Sonnon's various websites as well.
I think the problem with the neck bridge is that fluid is being squeezed out in the neck because the neck does not have the muscle structure to bear the weight, not beacuse of tne angle of the arc.
In a shoulder or hand bridge the back, the pressure is put upon you shoulders, which are a natural load bearing body part or your hands, where the pressure is dissapated throughout your arms before it finally reaches your wrists and palms.
In a bridge while back is compressed, it is bearing no load, no wieght so the compression on the spine is not nearly as intense as it is on the neck in a neck bridge. Think about it, you can only go so far in a back bridge, this limits you to the the amount of compression to what your back can handle.
The problem lies in adding weight. Your spine is already maxed out in that position and now your pushing well beyond what it can handle.
I´m a little bit sceptical about the whole issue (the last post on that thread is by me). What could cause problems is that the fluid part of the disc (the nucleus pulposus) moves to the other side so that compression leads to the edges of the disk grinding against each other. The neck isn´t compressed in gymnastics bridges and can hang freely.
Taking a nap or swimming decompresses the spine nicely, so I´m not sure compression is that much of a problem.
Considering the Mayo Clinic put out a health warning about wrestler's bridging and documented some cases of broken necks, I'd avoid it. It might be useful on the mat, but I'm no pro and risking my ability to move isn't a worthwhile risk if all I get is a stronger neck.
"Considering the Mayo Clinic put out a health warning about wrestler's bridging and documented some cases of broken necks, I'd avoid it."
Based on what? Anecdotes from a sparse few people where death occurred?
I am playing devils advocate here, however, unless there has been documented statistics that wrestlers bridging has caused a steady stream of deaths/paralysis I'm not convinced by a couple of examples.
Of course, that still doesn't make it healthy.
JasonL - Even using hands you will still be compressing the cervical vertebrae, just a little less than without them!
SStyle - I guess I was thinking that the lower/middle back area gets compressed in ANY bridge, but I totally take your points re the shoulders taking the weight & not the neck.
"Based on what? Anecdotes from a sparse few people where death occurred?"
Ummm... based on medical doctors in the area of sports medicine looking at the stresses put on the neck vertabrae during execution and cases where injury, paralyzation, and death have occurred, so they decided to put out a warning that it is a inherently dangerous activity. But Furey says it's cool, so I guess that's all I need.
The back is made to carry a load in an arched position. The neck is not. It stresses the vertebrae and the discs.
Please contact the Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research. They used to have the article on their site a year or two ago, but it seems they have changed much of their site since my last visit. I wrote to them and am waiting to recieve an answer, but feel free to contact them on your own.
"90% of the time, folks do the neck bridge incorrectly. This could be a problem."
Could definately be problem as with most other forms of exercise. However, if you want to check Testosterone Magazine's archives, I remember reading an interview with one of the few people in the world that has a PhD in the biomechanics of the spine where he says that neck bridging is dangerous and that he wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It'd be hard finding a more qualified guy than that.
There is no actual mention of wrestling bridges, but he points out that training the spine at a full range of motion is of little point and rather unsafe. But read for yourself.
Very interesting &, in part, answers my original question re gymnastic style bridging for health.
"But in many cases from both performance and safety perspectives, it’s a bit of a myth that the spine needs to be trained through its range of motion."
Highlights that perhaps lots of people are barking up the wrong tree when it comes to back strength & health?
Hmmm... I'll do a search on the web for his other interviews then. I distinctly remember him being asked in one because of his PhD focus. BTW, heard back from Mayo. They said anything that's not on their site has to be obtained by directly contacting the foundation. Sorry couldn't be of much help.
"Doctors don't always know what they're talking about ..."
Perhaps not, but compression of the cervical vertebrae in a wrestlers bridge is BLATANTLY CLEAR. You only need look at the position.
Seems to me that bridging in a wrestlers style & the basic gymnastic variety brings with it a whole lot of difficulties.
It's not necessary to bridge in training for grappling, although the bridge can be seen as a transitory position when moving from one posiiton to another (Escape from mount the obvious one, & even then you don't need to bridge on the head).