All these self defense threads

Underground
21

If someone is about to rape me, I'm afraid I might use the eye gouge and hope for a sympathetic jury if there was serious eye damage. Any woman on that jury would not find me guilty. My wife had been raped before I met her. The guy went to jail, but I'm sure she would have rather eye gouged him than have the scars on her vagina where he tore her up and the abortion from the demon spawn which caused more damage to her uterus. The physical scars on top of the emotional ones are hell.

I had a bouncer eye gouge me pretty good one time. (I wasn't trying to rape him) My eyes were bruised yellow and bloodshot for a week, but suffered no loss of vision. I think there are differences in an eye gouge such as a finger jab, or finding the eye socket and applying increasing pressure to distract the person.

Sometimes an easy pressure does the job; a full-fingered eye extractor would be into the deadly force range. I normally teach the eye gouge in a Law enforcement scenario when a suspect has knocked the officer down and is on the process of whooping the sheet out of the officer and the officer must protect the firearm (deadly force).

It still has it's place in an (uncivil) civilian setting though usually in the deadly force range.

22

bryggjeman...I'm sure I speak on behalf of the entire UG when I say that I'm sorry that you had to tell that story, and express an even deeper sorrow that your wife had to suffer through such a horrible ordeal.

This has nothing to do with this thread, but my sister, who I would die for tomorrow if given the choice, was raped nearly 10 years ago. She still has nightmares. She still deals with the memories. She still has the same emotional scars you speak of.

I give you all the props in the world for standing by her like that, and helping her deal with the trauma. Alot of guys have trouble dealing with the "emotional baggage" that comes with a girl having suffered through a situation like that. Like I said, my sister still deals with it, and if she has to deal with it, so does anybody who wants to be with her. Most of the guys can't.

She's now engaged to one of my best friends. They will be married in May. I love him like a brother already, and now I have all the respect in the world for him for standing by her.

I've never spoken to you. I don't know you. But I respect you just the same as my friend. You're a class act, brother.

Brian Myers

(we now return to our regularly scheduled program, "Tales of the Eye Gouge"...brought to you in part by Visene)

23

brianmeyers,
yeah, it's tough to deal with when those emotions come back. She also has a reminder in her eyebrow where he split that open.

The eye gouge would have been good for the guy to decide whether he would like to be blinded or find another victim.

Adam,

I totally agree with the spirit of your post, although, you could find a better example for excessive force than rape.

A daddy who is killed by his 15-year-old daughter because he has been molesting her since she was 7 gets no sympathy. A "classic" rapist with eye damage will get little sympathy. A date rapist with eye damage would understand the meaning of "No".

24

i am still contemplating motive of what i would do if i see the past "bullies" i had in high school tho...

jumps back to read Adam's thread info

:)

25

I like this FBI agent's answer to self defense.--

FBI agent attacked, shoots man
Police say she was victim of robbery attempt

By Aamer Madhani
Chicago Tribune staff reporter
Published October 11, 2004

An FBI agent shot a man who attempted to rob her Sunday afternoon outside an Edgewater apartment building, authorities said.

The man approached the woman about 12:15 p.m. as she stood on the landing of an apartment building in the 5600 block of North Wayne Avenue, dragged her down concrete steps and punched and bit her as she lay on her back, according to witnesses and Chicago police investigators at the scene.

Police and FBI officials confirmed that the agent fired her gun and wounded a man in what was believed to be an attempted robbery but would not reveal the agent's name.

Juan Escandon, 33, said he was parking his car nearby when he saw the tussle begin. Escandon said he got out of his car, approached the man and yelled at him to stop beating the woman. He said the woman, who he later learned was an FBI agent, screamed at the man not to rape her.

When he was only a few feet away from them, Escandon said, the woman pulled a handgun from an ankle holster and shot the man in the upper torso.

"I was scared and ran back toward my house for cover," Escandon said.

Witnesses said the man muttered an obscenity at the agent after he was wounded, staggered to his car and fled in a two-door blue Dodge. About two blocks away, the man lost control of the car and crashed into the wall of a coin laundry at Ridge and Magnolia Avenues, said a police investigator who asked not to be identified.

The crash appeared to cause little damage to the business or the car, and the vehicle stood wrapped with yellow police tape as customers went about their business hours after the incident.

Connie Trujillo, 14, whose mother owns a nearby beauty salon, was doing her family's laundry when the car crashed. Amid the din of the washers and dryers, she said she didn't notice the crash until another patron alerted her.

Trujillo said at least two customers went outside to assist the man, who was shirtless and bleeding from the upper torso.

"You could tell [his injury] wasn't from the car crash," Trujillo said.

JoAnn Taylor, a police spokeswoman, said the man was taken to Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center with injuries that were not believed to be life-threatening. No charges had been filed late Sunday, and it was unclear if the man knew the woman was an FBI agent.

At the apartment building, witnesses said the agent calmly collected herself and called 911 and her FBI office on a borrowed cell phone to report the attack.

Hannah Ato, 27, said she came out of her apartment with her husband to help the woman and heard her tell dispatchers that she was at the building picking up mail for a friend who was out of town.

"She had a big gash of a bite mark on her leg and her hair was pulled, but she was really calm," Ato said.

Copyright (c) 2004, Chicago Tribune

26

"Adam,
I totally agree with the spirit of your post, although, you could find a better example for excessive force than rape."

Then you should re-read my post.  Although I deeply sympathize with your wife's ordeal, my post was NOT to show an eye gouge as an "excessive force" response to an attempted rape............

It was an attempt to show how the typical McDojo teaches excessive force to a GRAB, without qualifying what a real attack is, whatsoever.

I wrote: "If someone grabs you and you think they might try to rape you, just kick them in the groin and stick your thumbs in their eyes as deep as you can, then run away"

The key to my post is that they have only grabbed you........ I made no mention of a takedown, a strike, a push, or even a verbal threat!  Just a grab.  It is unreasonable to assume that someone might try to rape you based solely on a grab, but the McDojos don't teach anything about scenario training........... just a generic "they grab, you feel threatened, here is how to use excessive force to be able to get away (in theory - they don't train with an adequate methodology to have it actually work with any kind of reliability, that is WHY we call them "McDojos" - they sell belts without any real skill being earned).

I have watched for years as McDojo students learn all of these elaborate "escapes" for simple wrist and clothing grabs, all in the name of self-defense, particularly "rape" in many situations.  What the instructors don't realize (or choose to ignore) is that most of these techniques were designed to be used by BATTLEFIELD soldiers, where one soldier grabbed his opponents' wrist to keep a knife or sword from being used against him; the other soldier would then counter with what would NOW be deemed as an excessive force strike, simply because you aren't on a battlefield in the middle of a war........... the scenario has completely changed.  Furthermore, many of their "attacks" that they practice their one and three-steps from would NEVER actually take place on the street.  NOBODY attacks someone by grapping their lapels, one in each hand, with their arms fully extended straight in front of them, for example.

 

27

brianmeyers -

The FORCE is my ally........ and a powerful ally it is!!

Nope, haven't seen your posts before - usually when people start getting in a pissing match on these forums, I head the other direction.  I used to get involved, then realized several years ago it usually doesn't do any good.  So, now I post a couple threads a year like this one and leave it at that.

I agree with you 100%, by the way.  EVERY style has "something" of value in it, and it IS important to keep an open mind.  People often get hung up on "proven results" - yet the only place they are looking at the results for is a nice, safe, refereed sportfight in a ring or octagon that has lots and lots of rules to ensure no one gets hurt too seriously.  Show me the survivors of real attacks (I am in that category) - and I'll show you someone who understands far more than MMA or any other sport fighting BY ITSELF will ever teach you.  Again, not discounting the value of that type of training to develop tools, but they are only tools for IF the situation has to go physical.

As to the length of my posts, and the time it takes to write them, it usually takes me only a few minutes.  Not sure how fast I type now, but I was timed at 64+ words per minute back in typing class in high school, and that was on an old mechanical key typewriter that slowed me down MUCH more than today's keyboards do..............

 

28

Adam,

What I get when (given no other info and) I read that "a person thinks someone might try to rape them"- is that due to totality of circumstances; it is the subject's perspective that "they are about to be raped"

I still agree with what you are saying, just misunderstanding the delivery. From Blauer's teachings, the scenarios and tactics should be situationally driven and congruous with reality.

I know you are describing the indiscriminate use of the eye gouge for any situation.

29

Tremendous post, Adam. I understand that most of the guys who post here do not work with female clients, sharing viable violence prevention strategies. This is evidenced by past remarks indicating that the first "move" some of these guys would teach a woman is a round kick, the jab/cross, or a triangle choke. Furthermore, a few of the people who have posted on past threads addressing this topic have a problem with the issue of rape being raised. Unfortunately, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reports 900,000 rapes or attempted rapes annually in America. That is considered a conservative estimate. I particularly enjoyed the comment you wrote about holding a small child while a situation begins to escalate. My belief (and admittedly, it may be mistaken) is that a high percentage of the visitors to this forum actively train MMA. A majority are probably younger males, having yet to deal with home mortgages, health insurance, and child care. Therefore, when someone posts something to the tune of "Get him or her on the Thai pads" or "Sleeve choke, sleeve choke, and more sleeve choke", I chalk the comments up to innocent lack of perspective. A 38 year old client (regardless of sex) who drives two kids around to hockey and soccer practice all weekend in an Astrovan and works 55 hours a week at the office to pay his or her mortgage has neither the time nor the interest to devote to hardcore MMA training. The argument is not that MMA fails to function in high-stress environs -- It works best (at least from a purely physical standpoint). The argument is that, in the interest of keeping people safe, you need to teach skills that are functional AND will gain client trust and acceptance.

30

I, in the meantime, need to learn any system capable of teaching me the ways of the paragraph.

31

Thanks, Parker.  Nice post of your own, too.  You hit the nail right on the head with the older clients.

"I, in the meantime, need to learn any system capable of teaching me the ways of the paragraph. "

LMAO at that!!  Here are two drills for you:

1. After writing a sentence, hit the <ENTER> button on your keyboard.  This will give you a double-spaced paragraph break.
2. After writing a sentence, hold down the <SHIFT> key, and then hit the <ENTER> button on your keyboard.  This will give you a single-spaced paragraph break.

Do these drills every day, for 10 sets of 50 reps.  Then contact me next week, and we'll cover sentence combinations, punctuation tactics, and ADVANCED paragraph strategies.

;-)

Adam

32

LOL, thanks, bro!

33

Not a problem!!

 

LOL

34

ttt

35

ttt one last time

36

ttt

37

Well,

Considering the number of people in this country who regularly read magazines, trade journals, and newspapers (to say nothing of some of the other posts on these forums that are equally as long or longer) - no, I do not think it is really that much writing (compared to other articles), nor do I think it is "too" much by any means.

Adam

 

38

I forgot to mention a retribution story from a while back. It all started with a bar fight. A few weeks later my friends were on the beach hanging out and the guys who were on the receiving end of the fight came up with a 2x4 and started at them. Those guys who brought the 2x4 ended up getting sent to the hospital. A year or two later my friends got a summons to appear in court. They spent at least $5000 defending themselves. Luckily they didn’t spend any time in jail for beating these guys down even though they deserved it. True story.

Oh, yeah, my 3 year old can hold his own, Adam. One time, I was loading groceries and this guy comes up begging for change, my boy did a flying knee strike to the face and ended up in the mount. He took the guy’s last tooth and shoved it up the guys nose and told him to look elsewhere for spare change. Not so true story.

It’s a bit different when you’ve got your kids with you. It’s bad enough just keeping the kid out of traffic or out of trouble without some other threat. Road rage with the kid is something else too.

39

true dat

40

I hate stories like that. I hate judges who even keep those cases in the courts for more than 5 minutes. You bring a weapon (assualt with a deadly weapon, anybody?) and you get your ass kicked, then you go to jail. You should've used the weapon properly.

It's like criminals who break into people's houses, get shot, and then bring law suits against the homeowner. And some judges actually rule in favor of the criminal.

***Dead men make bad witnesses!

"Your honor, that man broke my brand new 2x4 with his face...I wan't the cost of the board and $5,000 for mental distress."