With all this talk about promotion in regards to the Gracie and Bravo online program, one thing is sure, that saying "belt color doesn't matter" is a farce. It is very clear that promotion and rank, do matter to people.
When I was younger and coming up in the ranks, I was always taking mental notes on who I thought lived up to and were "deserving" of their rank and those I felt were not. As I have gotten older, I really don't give a crap anymore. What I realized that is that you define yourself. If you are good on the mat, it doesn't matter who gave you your promotion or how you got it because you are good- period. And if you suck on the mat, it also doesn't matter who gave you your promotion or how you got it. If you suck on the mat, getting rank from a well-respected big name doesn't make you any better. Similarly, what I realized is that someone's rank and performance has little effect on you. If you have skill and people respect you for that skill, people don't view you any less if someone else with the same belt color is far less skilled.
I spoke to a black belt a while ago who was very critical of someone else's promotion. This black belt is well respected and trains under a very well respected instructor. They both come from a well respected lineage. I asked this black belt, "Do you agree with every promotion that your instructor has given?" He answered, "No." I then pointed out that I was pretty sure that he wasn't openly critical of the "undeserving" promotions that his instructor gave out and that I was pretty sure that one day when he gave out promotions of his own, someone somewhere would probably disagree with his decisions.
I'm setting up a real-time Belt Exchange to work just like a currency exchange. Every time one crosses the threshold of a gym, they pay me to set the belt equivalency awarded by their instructor to the belt of the school being visited.
I just received a tweet that said my idea is long overdue :)
I find the only area I care about belt ranks is competition. It gets inconvenient if you're winning at a certain rank and not getting promoted. It also somewhat sucks if you get promoted early and keep losing.
Obviously it's damn useful for making money too, which is I guess where people are getting concerned.
Well, belt rank and competition is a completely different subject.
As far as the Gracie and Bravo online grading system, I just find little need to get so personally emotionally involved liked many people have. I'm not approving or disapproving of their online grading system. Personally, I would just wait and see if such a method of grading ends up being equal or less effective than the "traditional" method which tends to be pretty subjective and chaotic anyway. Let us not forget that the "traditional" method isn't void of individuals whom some perceive to be at a lesser skill level than than rank they are given.
Yeah, I think Gracie Barra is starting to draw that reputation of giving out rank too early, but people aren't as vocal about that.
It seems to also reflect demand. There aren't enough Black Belts any more for the people who want to train.
I think there are plenty of black belts, it just that they tend to be condensed in certain areas. In some areas of southern Calif., you may have 3 black belts, each with a school within a 5 min. drive of each other.
I don't think such occurrences are isolated to only certain groups. Since the whole thing with promotions in BJJ is subjective, anyone can find someone who they personally feel is "undeserving" or promoted too early from any instructor or group. But, the other thing to consider is that there are other factors (age, disabilities, injuries, size, time in training,teaching ability, etc....) that are taken into consideration besides skill on the mat when it comes to promotions. The instructor may have a reason which you do not realize.
Forum member Steve Reiter told me an interesting story about belt promotion he heard from either Carlos Gracie Jr or one of his top instructors, I think Marcos Feitosa, I can't remember which.
Anyway, the story's basic point was this: Belt ranks all don't carry the same worth or value in terms of actual skill. Carlos promoted students based on their individual potential. In other words, the students rank and promotion was relative to the student. Some students he promoted quickly but neither Carlos or the student believed or felt their "rank" meant they were better skill-wise the others particularly the naturally skilled and talented individuals. This type of student was essentailly given rank as a reward and symbol of their dedication and committment to the art as well as progress (everyone made progress when promoted albeit relative to the individual).
But the more skilled and talent student Carlos would make them wait because for Carlos and that type of student the belt would mean something more in terms of skill. Carlos also felt the more talented and skill student would naturally work harder if rank was delayed over time.
Nevertheless, just because Carlos promoted student A to whatever belt rank faster than student B doesn't necessarily mean Carlos felt student A was a better fighter.
That's an interesting view point. Quite some contrast compared to people who train for over a decade before finally getting their blue.
Like I said, the whole thing is subjective, but some people seem quite adamant that their view is law.
By the way, I understand that promotion to "black belt" does matter when it comes to business and the perception that belt color gives when dealing with the general public especially since the average person is not knowledgeable in martial arts.
However, for those of who train BJJ, I am curious why belt promotion means so much to so many people. I think it may something related to ego.
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I think they might be worried that if a Black Belt who is only Purple level (or worse, Blue) in terms of competition ability starts teaching, there will start being lower quality browns, purples and blues. Eventually it would create a situation where a BJJ belt is no more respected than a TKD belt. As is now, a purple certainly means something, and a blue says a bit too, but with online promotions guys who have worked hard are worried they'll be seen as the same as guys who didn't have to work nearly as hard to get promoted online.
I was wondering more along the lines of why receiving a belt promotion and wearing a higher belt color means so much to certain individuals. Are they saying, "Hey everyone, look what I've accomplished"? Or "I want to be acknowledgment for what I have done"?
As far as your statement, I believe the situation is like parenting. As a parent, I do what I think is best for my kids personally and also in hopes that they will be positive contributors to society. I look at a lot of other kids and I disagree with so many things that other parents are doing. I see what they are doing and believe that what they are doing as parents will be detrimental to their child somehow in the future or to society. Despite what I firmly believe, I realize that no matter what I say, those other parents are going to raise their children the way they want to do it. They are not going to change no matter what I say just as I sure wouldn't change what I do if they said something to me. I realize that if I want to have society move in a positive direction, my efforts would be more productive in raising my children right than spending the effort trying to change some other parent''s mind.
I guess I have this view because in the past, I had taken the approach of attempting to aggressively dissuade people of their views and it look me a while to realize that approach doesn't really work very well.
You do have a point there about not accomplishing anything by criticising people for something you think they're doing wrong. Certainly, the promotions are going to happen as they do regardless of any complaints.
I think though, there is some value in discussing it for people who haven't made up their mind. This is the ostensible good reason for Bullshido's existence. People will look into martial arts, and they'll probably research online. If they search for 10th Planet Jiu Jitsu or Gracie University, alongside the official sites they'll see discussions come up about people criticising it. At least they'll get the opportunity to see both sides of the argument.
I haven't been to that other site you mentioned, but I understand that a good discussion and debate can definitely be of value. However, at least what I have seen on this site, there are many times in which the discussion goes way past a healthy debate and becomes extremely aggressive, abrasive, and personal. I believe this ends up doing the whole art of BJJ a disservice. Imagine if you are looking to join a martial arts school and when you walk in the door, two students are yelling at each other and calling each other names. I think that would make you hesitant about joining the school in general.
In addition, I generally noticed on these recent controversial topics that the critics tend to be the ones who are most abrasive while the proponents tend to be more even keeled. In my opinion, and I could be wrong, I don't think such abrasiveness will attract newbies to their cause. I actually think that a newbie would more likely listen carefully to the side that was more even keeled. For example, as a parent if I was looking to sign up my child, I'd probably want them to join the group that behaved the most professional rather than the group that could yell the loudest.
Yeah, Bullshido discussions get pretty nasty too. I guess it depends on the person and what they're looking for. It seems quite effective at convincing people who want to learn to fight (or think they do), convincing them to go with a method that has been proven to work (in school training, in person promotions and lots of competition) over one that's unproven (most TMAs, online instruction and promotion) is pretty easy.
But I think you have too much faith in people's ability to make sound decisions based on logic and reason. I find that most people make decisions on emotion.
In the past, I thought that as long as I based my argument on logic and reason, I could aggressively shove it down people's throats and they would see the light. But what I found was that people would pay more attention to how I said it rather than what I was saying. The logic of what I was saying was drowned out by the negative emotional response that my tone may have brought out. Later, someone else would say exactly what I said and people would react like it was some sort of never heard before revelation. I would sit there thinking, "What they heck? I was saying that same thing a while ago".
Perhaps I do. It might also be that they're reacting emotionally to the arguments on Bullshido and the vehemence appeals to them. "If they talk like a badass, they must be a badass, so I'll join them!"
Yeah, there definitely is a mob mentality that forms very easily on the forums. I believe that is also one reason why many "big names" stay away from the forums.
I believe you hit the nail on the head with your post at the top, these concepts apply to all of life. I can take "work" or "school" and inset them in place of "mat" and it still rings true.
A resume is nothing but a list of ones belt colors: Eagle Scout, college degrees, accredited universities, years experience, promotions to various corporate levels, etc.
It seems that rank is used throughout life as the great motivator, and wherever there is rank these arguments exist due to peoples methods of protecting their interest.
Rank can be motivator, but the result is not always as positive in the long run for everyone when it comes to motivation. For example, when I was growing up, we went to school and studied, not for the joy of learning, but rather to get the good grade. The impression that I was given was that anything less than excellence when it came to grades would result in failure in life.
Because learning was not about enjoying and enriching oneself, I really hated school and the whole educational system. I felt the whole thing was torturous. I felt there was something wrong with measuring an individual's worth through their grades. Right when I graduated college, I told myself that I never wanted to go to school ever again in my life. Heck, I don't even know where my high school and college diplomas are. So what was supposed to be motivating, for me, did the exact opposite.
In BJJ, I see so many people slack off or disappear right after getting a promotion (especially blue belt) because I believe for many of those people the promotion was a far greater motivator than the joy of learning and self-improvement.