An Honest OG discussion: Russia vs Ukraine

I know most think I’m some Russia simp, but that’s just not the case.
I’m American, I will die for this country in a moments notice.
Supporting Ukraine is the virtuous thing to do.
But I’ll always take the logical rout.

Ukraine agreed not to join NATO. They were in the process of gaining acceptance, and Russia can’t be having that shit.
Ukraine joins NATO, NATO lines the east Ukraine border with troops. Moscow resides near the western Russia border.
Russia assumed that Ukraine would eventually gain acceptance to NATO and made the move to invade Ukraine.
This is all to protect Moscow.

Russia winning, Ukraine winning, who gives a shit.
I can’t stand that billions of tax dollars are disappearing every month with no accountability.
This situation is unacceptable.

It’s none of our fucking business, and i can name a million other things that money can do to help Americans in need.

Immediately after a pandemic, which cost trillions, we go and dump billions into fucking Ukraine?
And many of you support this

I find that disgusting when your own fellow Americans are struggling, roads and bridges are crumbling, and cities overwhelmed with crime.

If you stand with Ukraine while America is falling apart, Fuck you

kvbSdxU

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Fuck em both. Not one penny for either side. Fuck you, if you think otherwise.

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image

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GIF by FOX TV

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Milton Bearden, the CIA Afghanistan station chief during the 1980s, estimated it cost America $13 trillion to win the Cold War. Spending $40 billion on top of a $800 billion defense budget to see “Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine,” per Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, is an exceptional cost savings and investment in our national security. Or, to quote Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell, “Anyone concerned about the cost of supporting a Ukrainian victory should consider the much larger cost should Ukraine lose.”

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giphy

Fuck Mitch McConnell

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this retard :point_down:t2: Lol

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Exactly. There is a reason both parties support war funding and lethal aid/training even before the war.

It benefits the USA greatly. That money would never see the domestic budget and people complaining about the costs don’t understand that.

The west has isolated Russia while making NATO more powerful at the cost of no American soldiers. You can’t ask for a better deal. That’s worth many trillions

What happened the last time the US ignored shit in Europe?

WW2. WW2 happened.

Then the Cold War.

What happened when the US ignored Europe the time before that?

WW1

Throwing money at Ukraine, win or lose, means they keep Russia wasting men, money and equipment on them as well as some amount of destabilization/distraction of the Russian govt

Better the Ukrainians die than Americans.

Yep. That’s cold as fuck but that’s international politics

WW2 might not have happened if America had continued to ignore Europe and not taken sides in WW1. WW1 was a clusterfuck where everyone was at fault and there were no good guys or bad guys. America joining in tilted the balance of power and resulted in Germany getting skull-fucked at Versailles, which is what allowed a certain Austrian corporal to gain power a decade later.

The USA should have let the Europeans fight until they were exhausted rather than choosing sides and picking winners. Who knows? If it had gone on long enough, maybe some lucky Brit soldier would have blown off the top of that Austrian corporal’s skull.

How is that a good thing? Destabilizing Russia is not going to lead to some progressive champion taking over and liberal world order running smoothly. It will likely lead to someone even worse than Putin taking power, or in the nightmare scenario, Russia will Balkanize and the west will have to deal with a half-dozen nuclear-powered mini-Putins (think Kadyrov, but with nukes). Stability is always preferable to chaos, because chaos inevitably empowers violent psychopaths who use it as a ladder.

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In war there are no good guys/bad guys because war isn’t about morality, it’s about what’s good for you country’s govt.

The mistakes after WW1 were not repeated and the world went on to make new and better mistakes.

That, in this life, is what passes as progress and I about the best you can hope form

Maybe. Maybe not.

Fact is govt’s wanted peace because war interrupts making money.

Nobody gives a shit what govt is in power in Russia as long as it’s too weak the threaten anyone else

NATO prevents people from using nuclear weapons because they know the rest of the world will blast them out of existence

That’s a lie, great start

The rest of your rant isn’t worth responding to

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That presumes there is a rational actor at the button. I don’t know about you, but I have my doubts that a guy like Kadyrov is a rational actor. Now imagine a half-dozen dudes like him controlling a chunk of the Soviet nuclear stockpile. What are the odds that all six of them will act rationally?

The other 5 will once the first is incinerated

An Axis victory would have been worse for the world, only an idiot thinks otherwise

I can’t recall anyone saying that

Yea, that would not be ideal

And major countries invading their neighbors isn’t contributing to stability

lol he said there’s a budget

But that first guy could blow London or New York or Berlin off the map before those other five learn their lesson. Is that really a price you want to pay to be rid of Putin?

Great Gatsby Movie GIF by Sony

It’s all about congressmen having a place to launder money