Ancient fighters: strong work ethic, intense training, their lives depended on it.
Modern fighters: have a modern man work ethic, we are far lazier, don't train as hard and we have alot less at stake.
lose in the UFC and you can lose your reputation, but lose in pankration and you could lose your life.
I think a revealing question to ask is, how would Plato do against today's thinkers?
I don't know about the whole "raised in a hardscrabble environment making you tougher" thing. If that is true, than why aren't the 3rd world nations of today dominating at the Olympics? Of course some athletes do well, but most of these are taken away from that type of life while they train, and supported by their government.
Tough people then are not necceserely tougher then tough people now.
If you want to see how an ancient fighter would do against medenr fighter take a look at no so ancient Ken Shamrock fighting modern Tito Ortiz.
Fighters today would win. Easily.
I saw a show once on Brazilian Indians who still lived like Stone Age people. There was an older guy, like 60, cut like a 20 year old athlete, super strong, and able to climb trees. I think that there were probably some real SOBs back in the ancient Greek days who could give some modern fighters a run for their money.
And BTW, when it comes to combat sports, the best often do come from the poorer countries or the poorer parts of the wealthier countries. There is a certain amount of training you need, but it probably was available in ancient Greece or Rome as well.
William Wallice was 7 feet tall & could shoot fireballs from his eyes & bolts of lightning from his arse.
If it was a 'No Rules' fight to the death in think the ancients would freakin kill someone from today!
People today just dont have the survival instinct and toughness they did then... even fighters (no matter what any of you wanna be tough guys think)
Got to remmeber one thing... in the last 100 years bjj, the gracies and MMA are only RE-DISCOVERING the practicality of a science these guys used for real for a freakin 1000 years
When pride has it 1000 year anniversary, then bring this subject up again
Does anyone know the average size of the ancient Greek fighter? According to a study, by Nikola Koepke and Joerg Baten, the average height, male and female, was about 169 centimeters or about 5'5. My money will would be on Tim Sylvia by anyting he wants. "Fight to the death instinct" or not.
Right, 'cause Sylvia is close to modern average height. The average height in America is around 5'9" and their are people much taller people so it's not inconceivable that in ancient Greece their were people around 6'1" (Mir's height) or taller.
Milo of Kroton, the greatest Olympic wrestler, reputedly ate 40 pounds of meat and bread at one sitting, washing it down with eight quarts of wine. In the Laws Plato notes that Ikkos of Tarentum, a victor in the Olympic pentathlon (perhaps in 444 B.C.), was said never to have touched a woman, or a boy, while in training. Weight lifting was not an event nor was it a major part of training, for which shadow boxing, punching bags, and even dancing were recommended. Flute music often accompanied training, and many festivals included contests for musicians, dancers, and heralds.
The basic equipment of an athlete consisted only of an unguent jar (aryballos) of oil and a scraping instrument (strigil) for anointing and cleaning himself, though for various events a competitor might need other gear: a pick to soften the ground, boxing thongs, jumping weights, discus, or javelin. He had no shoes, no jockstrap, no uniform, and no endorsements.
Pericles funeral oration (according to Thucydides)
5th Century BC Athens
One should be careful to provide (certain warriors) with too much praise. People will tend to disbelieve stories of valor if it is beyond what they would themselves feel capable of doing. (Sound Familiar to some in this forum ?) Rather, show respect for them not with stories but by taking advantage of their efforts to benefit you.
Subadie,
I like that quote.
J.C.
When I was a kid we used to walk to school in the snow uphill both ways.
J.C.
Its from memory, not a book so it is somewhat paraphrased.
However, these Athenians were real characters. They were fighters/warriors in ways that we can not comprehend. When they conquered Melos, they killed all of the men, and sold the women and children into slavery.
Pericles nephew Alcibiades was really a great speaker and fighter/general. He was exiled from Athens, went to Sparta, became advisor to the king, slept with his wife and bragged when the baby looked like him. Was exiled and went to Persia. Talked them into giving money to Athens, used the money to work his way back to being a general in Athens, was exiled again and became a Thracian
Alcibiades is now my hero!
That would be like an all start basketball tema from the 50's going up against the '96 dreamteam. Just wouldnt be pretty at all.
lol @ "never to have touched a woman, or a boy, while in training."
I was laughing at that too.
Grappling has DEVOLVED (especially over the last 75 years) into what it is today- mediocre grappling with decent striking mixed in.
Also, grappling has been much more popular than it is now at various points in history. Today only a small number of people watch anything grappling related, and a much much smaller portion actually train in any type of grappling.