"The Spartans, for instance, who practiced pankration as part of their training but did not compete in it (reckoning it was effected because it didn't include everything), preferred hard foot sweeps to bring an opponent to the ground, while the Eleans were acknowledged masters of the stranglehold. Some arm-twisting was done while standing but the norm was punches and low, rising kicks to the stomach or groin. Kicks above the stomach were never attempted when standing, and kicks to the chest or head were done only to a grounded competitor."
I know for a fact that similar MMA fighting systems were practiced at many different continents in the ancient world. The mongolians, indians, iranians, brits, greek and asians were some of the people's that had some form of a mixed combat system.
Pankration on the other hand, was the only one that had organized fights were people from all over the world came to watch and compete. This was one of the first olympic sports, and it was developed over hundreds of generations. Just think about how many techniques have been lost.
Modern mixed martial arts has been around for about 100 years in total, and only developed rapidly over the last 10 years or so. Pankration was developed as a fighting system over hundreds of years. They trained much like we do today, using padded gloves, sandbags, ear guards, sparring standing up and submission wrestling.
Here is a interesting article I found which speaks briefly about the ancient champions and some of their fights and training methods;
"A favored technique used both prone or standing was called the klimakismos or "ladder trick," in which a competitor leaped or otherwise worked his way onto his opponent's back, encircling him with his legs and simultaneously strangling him from behind while scissoring the abdomen with the thighs"
truewrestler - There should be an MMA movie based on pankration. 300 meets Warrior <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
Yeah kinda of a Bloodsport from ancient times, that would be sick
That's a shitload of information just from observing statues. " Recreational hypothesis " of what happened from studying busts of statues is completely different from actually witnessing the historical event AS IT HAPPENED and in first person.
And somehow these busts and other meager forms of evidence is supposed to replace the " live " evidence that we have of MMA with respect to the Asians and Brazillians that they somehow their arts to Greeks and Spartans , who , by the way according to habitual Anglo-Saxon historical distortions - were " white".
Take a small grain of ambiguous truth
Distort it
Inflate it , branch from this grain of truth
Distort each branches and what you'll have is the systematic prototype for shapeshifting lies e.g. Anglo-Saxon distortions apply all the way back to lies about the history of Britain.
DoctorOctagonUK - Awesome close-up picture in the first post but worth mentioning that statue is of the Boxer of Quirinal, also known as the Terme Boxer, who was not a pankrationist.
I kind of like that statue, so got a little tattoo of it
McDonalds, Marlboro and Tattoos, excellent life choices my friend! I kid, I kid.
GCT - That's a shitload of information just from observing statues. " Recreational hypothesis " of what happened from studying busts of statues is completely different from actually witnessing the historical event AS IT HAPPENED and in first person.
And somehow these busts and other meager forms of evidence is supposed to replace the " live " evidence that we have of MMA with respect to the Asians and Brazillians that they somehow their arts to Greeks and Spartans , who , by the way according to habitual Anglo-Saxon historical distortions - were " white".
Take a small grain of ambiguous truth
Distort it
Inflate it , branch from this grain of truth
Distort each branches and what you'll have is the systematic prototype for shapeshifting lies e.g. Anglo-Saxon distortions apply all the way back to lies about the history of Britain.
Except this isn't taken just from statues. Nice strawman. The Greeks had this awesome thing called writing. They had annals describing the bouts. Wow you are asinine. People like you will post on threads to ruin them no matter what the topic is.
GCT - That's a shitload of information just from observing statues. " Recreational hypothesis " of what happened from studying busts of statues is completely different from actually witnessing the historical event AS IT HAPPENED and in first person.
And somehow these busts and other meager forms of evidence is supposed to replace the " live " evidence that we have of MMA with respect to the Asians and Brazillians that they somehow their arts to Greeks and Spartans , who , by the way according to habitual Anglo-Saxon historical distortions - were " white".
Take a small grain of ambiguous truth
Distort it
Inflate it , branch from this grain of truth
Distort each branches and what you'll have is the systematic prototype for shapeshifting lies e.g. Anglo-Saxon distortions apply all the way back to lies about the history of Britain.
Except this isn't taken just from statues. Nice strawman. The Greeks had this awesome thing called writing. They had annals describing the bouts. Wow you are asinine. People like you will post oon threads to ruin them no matter what the topic is.
1) Why bring up the Greeks all of the sudden? It's been the latest craze to bring up Greeks and Spartans and their connections with MMA. Listen, even if they practiced it, they have no real connections to it, not to Bruce Lee, not to Royce Gracie, not to Maeda , and don't even try to make the far fetched association between Maeda and Catch Wrestling and then from Catch Wrestling to the Greeks as people in Britain are barely cognizant of the existence of Catch Wrestling. If you can't make such LEGITIMATE connections, why keep bring it up? Does bring it up repeatedly make these ancient forms of information relevant to modern Martial Arts or is such leaps in associations wishful thinking on your part?
2) What associations are they seeking with the mentioning of these Greeks from stuff that supposedly happened THOUSANDS of years ago?
In other words, are you Greek? Oh , I get it , here it goes
- you are " white "
- germans are " white " , you are thus german (even if you're italian or irish)
- germans are descended from from the greatest of ancient cultures
- thus this Greek and Spartan culture is " white " culture
3) How is this ANCIENT information supposed to change (distort) how Martial Arts is perceived today?
But most of all , why bring up all of this information , ALL OF THE SUDDEN? You're free to delude yourself as much as you want, but I'll be a witness to such antics. Threads like this are ploys to round up a wishful consensus of things that didn't happen based on small and irrelevant grains of truths.
GCT - That's a shitload of information just from observing statues. " Recreational hypothesis " of what happened from studying busts of statues is completely different from actually witnessing the historical event AS IT HAPPENED and in first person.
And somehow these busts and other meager forms of evidence is supposed to replace the " live " evidence that we have of MMA with respect to the Asians and Brazillians that they somehow their arts to Greeks and Spartans , who , by the way according to habitual Anglo-Saxon historical distortions - were " white".
Take a small grain of ambiguous truth
Distort it
Inflate it , branch from this grain of truth
Distort each branches and what you'll have is the systematic prototype for shapeshifting lies e.g. Anglo-Saxon distortions apply all the way back to lies about the history of Britain.
GCT - That's a shitload of information just from observing statues. " Recreational hypothesis " of what happened from studying busts of statues is completely different from actually witnessing the historical event AS IT HAPPENED and in first person.
And somehow these busts and other meager forms of evidence is supposed to replace the " live " evidence that we have of MMA with respect to the Asians and Brazillians that they somehow their arts to Greeks and Spartans , who , by the way according to habitual Anglo-Saxon historical distortions - were " white".
Take a small grain of ambiguous truth
Distort it
Inflate it , branch from this grain of truth
Distort each branches and what you'll have is the systematic prototype for shapeshifting lies e.g. Anglo-Saxon distortions apply all the way back to lies about the history of Britain.
Except this isn't taken just from statues. Nice strawman. The Greeks had this awesome thing called writing. They had annals describing the bouts. Wow you are asinine. People like you will post oon threads to ruin them no matter what the topic is.
1) Why bring up the Greeks all of the sudden? It's been the latest craze to bring up Greeks and Spartans and their connections with MMA. Listen, even if they practiced it, they have no real connections to it, not to Bruce Lee, not to Royce Gracie, not to Maeda , and don't even try to make the far fetched association between Maeda and Catch Wrestling and then from Catch Wrestling to the Greeks as people in Britain are barely cognizant of the existence of Catch Wrestling. If you can't make such LEGITIMATE connections, why keep bring it up? Does bring it up repeatedly make these ancient forms of information relevant to modern Martial Arts or is such leaps in associations wishful thinking on your part?
2) What associations are they seeking with the mentioning of these Greeks from stuff that supposedly happened THOUSANDS of years ago?
In other words, are you Greek? Oh , I get it , here it goes
- you are " white "
- germans are " white " , you are thus german (even if you're italian or irish)
- germans are descended from from the greatest of ancient cultures
- thus this Greek and Spartan culture is " white " culture
3) How is this ANCIENT information supposed to change (distort) how Martial Arts is perceived today?
But most of all , why bring up all of this information , ALL OF THE SUDDEN? You're free to delude yourself as much as you want, but I'll be a witness to such antics. Threads like this are ploys to round up a wishful consensus of things that didn't happen based on small and irrelevant grains of truths.
excellent points about how much could have been discovered over hundreds of years of pankration about what works best when where and how...
we can probably make the same progress in a fraction of the time seeing as how cross training in different arts is much more possible logistically, as well as all the film and and research that can be done used online and otherwise
GCT - 1) Why bring up the Greeks all of the sudden? It's been the latest craze to bring up Greeks and Spartans and their connections with MMA.
Because the thread is titled "Ancient MMA (Pankration)" Did you notice? This topic has been discussed on this forum for over 10 years. It's been in magazines like Inside Kung-Fu, Black Belt and been promoted for over 10 years by USA Federation of Pankration Athlima, Funicello, Matt Hume and Jim Arvanitis. It's been on television on channels like Discovery and NatGeo. Pankration was the onus behind creating Pancrase...you know that form of fighting that predated UFC by a few months and been around since 1993?
Listen, even if they practiced it, they have no real connections to it, not to Bruce Lee, not to Royce Gracie, not to Maeda , and don't even try to make the far fetched association between Maeda and Catch Wrestling and then from Catch Wrestling to the Greeks as people in Britain are barely cognizant of the existence of Catch Wrestling.
Do you normally argue with yourself?
If you can't make such LEGITIMATE connections, why keep bring it up?
I've never made a thread on the topic before. I've also never discussed it with your before. I'm bringing it up now, because....well...someone made a thread on it. The legitimate connections are ancient Greek annals, pottery and art.
Does bring it up repeatedly make these ancient forms of information relevant to modern Martial Arts or is such leaps in associations wishful thinking on your part?
Again, I've never made a thread on it or had a discussion on it with you. You seem confused.
What associations are they seeking with the mentioning of these Greeks from stuff that supposedly happened THOUSANDS of years ago?
This is an MMA website with the purpose of discussion. Ancient combat isn't out of the realm of discussion. The OP just started a thread to get some discussion going. You don't have to like the topic, and you don't have to post. But to pretend the only mention of Pankration in history is through pottery is uneducated and ignorant.
In other words, are you Greek? Oh , I get it , here it goes - you are "white", -germans are " white " , you are thus german (even if you're italian or irish- germans are descended from from the greatest of ancient cultures- thus this Greek and Spartan culture is " white " culture"
Sorry, I'm not Greek. That's an awful lot of energy to expend on a strawman. By any chance have you stopped taking medication that was prescribed to you? When you feel better, it means the meds are working. You don't stop taking them.
3) How is this ANCIENT information supposed to change (distort) how Martial Arts is perceived today? But most of all , why bring up all of this information , ALL OF THE SUDDEN? You're free to delude yourself as much as you want, but I'll be a witness to such antics. Threads like this are ploys to round up a wishful consensus of things that didn't happen based on small and irrelevant grains of truths.
Please refer to my reply about the history on this site on this topic. Enjoy your VTFD. I hope you choke on it.
ausgepicht , even if the ancient greeks did practice MMA just like we practice it today, DOESN'T MEAN THAT MODERN DAY MMA OWES CREDIT TO THE ANCIENT GREEKS AND SPARTANS.
It's quite simple, we'll say that the Greeks and Spartans did practice some form of MMA, and then there existed a period when they became completely irrelvant and forgotten, and then some thousands of years later some Asiatic or Brazillian devised up a form of martial arts WITHOUT having to look up ancient history. THUS, THERE IS NO REAL CONNECTION HERE, just your wishful thinking that modern MMA owes credit to these ancient greeks, who have suddenly come to life because of some goddamn pottery that could have been fabricated one way or another.
So, AGAIN , what's with the mentioning of the greeks? What does that have to do with ANYTHING? Remember, the greeks nor the Spartans didn't call it " MMA " , it's people like you that label what they did as " ancient MMA ". Again, there is no REAL connection here, just your wishful thinking.
GCT - ausgepicht , even if the ancient greeks did practice MMA just like we practice it today, DOESN'T MEAN THAT MODERN DAY MMA OWES CREDIT TO THE ANCIENT GREEKS AND SPARTANS.
It's quite simple, we'll say that the Greeks and Spartans did practice some form of MMA, and then there existed a period when they became completely irrelvant and forgotten, and then some thousands of years later some Asiatic or Brazillian devised up a form of martial arts WITHOUT having to look up ancient history. THUS, THERE IS NO REAL CONNECTION HERE, just your wishful thinking that modern MMA owes credit to these ancient greeks, who have suddenly come to life because of some goddamn pottery that could have been fabricated one way or another.
So, AGAIN , what's with the mentioning of the greeks? What does that have to do with ANYTHING? Remember, the greeks nor the Spartans didn't call it " MMA " , it's people like you that label what they did as " ancient MMA ". Again, there is no REAL connection here, just your wishful thinking.
OK, I gave you the benefit of the doubt in my first reply, but this second reply makes me lean towards trolling or my tongue-in-cheek comment about being off your meds, may actually be the truth. If you want to ignore every single one of my replies, that means you prefer barking over discussion. Good enough. Your choice.
