Angling and creating angles

ttt

Lets have a thread on angling and angles coz i believe this is vital to Boxing/kickboxing and MMA. Obviously footwork ties in heavily with this.

I was taught to circle away from the powerhand by my first coach, while using the jab to distract while i angled out to my right (his left against an orthodox) to set up my right hand/cross so i'd hit him almost from the side/45 degree angle.

Now in theory i always worried if this would set my jaw up to be an easier target for his jab (in the same way it was easier for my cross) but in practice i could always land the right hand better in the form of an overhand over his jab thus having better effect.

The Jab seemed invaluable in setting up/opening up angles when used with shifting sideways (lateral) and circling footwork.

Also it lets u attack the legs wihtout much resistance!

My Q is i want to know more about angling and angles......how to set them up with my footwork and how to drill it/develop angles etc. Also how to avoid giving up angles !!

The other Q is i see alot of people have problems keeping their angle long enough because the opponent steps around to rid themselves of the angle.

Thanx guyz i think this hasnt been covered in much details out there (my gym) and in here.

I'm thinking about it... this isn't an easy question to answer without visual aids.

Khun Kao

U think that 5 punches= 1 kick?
i mean 5 unclean punches?
either way
GREAT stuff!!

I was taught to circle to my jab side, usually. So, jabbing with my left means I'm circling to my left. Sure, I was taught about moving away from the power hand also.

Let's see, when finishing a combo, circle and use head motion going to the side that you just punched from. For instance, if I finish my combo with a right hand, use defensive head motion and circle out to my right. If I finished with the left hand, defensive head motion as I circle out to the left. Examples:

RIGHT CROSS= Bob/Weave as I circle right

LEFT HOOK= Bob/Weave as I circle left

Another thing, we almost ALWAYS counter attack on the same side the opponent just attacked. For instance, if my opponent just threw a right-legged kick, I will respond with a left-legged kick. If he threw a left hook, I will respond with a right cross. Etc, Etc.

One of the most important lessons I've ever learned is that once you have finished your combination... MOVE!!!! Circle out to one side because if you don't, you WILL GET HIT! My last boxing coach was attempting ot beat this lesson into my head. He would always say, "Don't admire your work!".

Well, I had just lit up my sparring partner with a nice combo. I stopped and admired my work, and was immediately nailed in return.

If you are comfortable using a lot of footwork, then you can constantly circle your opponent, just outside of his reach. This forces him to constantly adjust to you. As you circle, learn to switch directions quickly and smoothly, and then be ready to take advantage when your opponent misses one of your switches for an instant.

One of the things about creating angles is that you want to learn to use your footwork to keep your opponent in the center of the ring. That is the best place for your opponent as it gives you the most room to work with. That way, you can circle 360 degrees around your opponent as you pepper him with strikes.

When your opponent round kicks, step with the kick to not only absorb the impact, but to also create an angle. If your opponent kicks with his right leg, you step to your right to absorb the blow. Because you have stepped out of the kicks "sweet spot", it becomes harder for him to recover and you have changed your angle so that he is not lined up correctly. You use this same technique to catch a kick.

If you RTFA (Read the Fucking Archive! j/k!!!) you will find a saved article called "Push Kick Savate-style" or something like that, which explains how to use a Savate setup for the Push Kick. You essentially side step first, then hop in with a Push Kick at an angle.

If you are successful at getting an angle on your opponent while close, its the perfect time to clinch and knee. Clinch knees are MUCH harder to defend against from a side angle, and this can make or break your fight.

As a final note, I believe that this is where Western Boxing skills have the greatest effect in Muay Thai: Using your jab and other punches help occupy your opponents attention, which then sets up the opportunity for you to use footwork (again from Boxing) to create an angle.

Remember, in Muay Thai, Boxing in and of itself doesn't count for much. One landed kick will beat five solid punches. But at the same time, the skills you glean from Boxing are invaluable! You have to learn to use the footwork, punches, and defenses to create the angles for your other Muay Thai weapons.

Khun Kao

Judah...

Please, details man! Details! I kinda understand what you're saying, but not completely. I'm sure others are as confused as I am. Break it down for us...

Khun Kao

What a coincidence,February is all about Angles month for us here at BAG.

Her is a quick list of some of the things we are covering this month.

Move Weak-Strike
Fake Weak-Move Strong-Strike
Fake Weak-Fake Strong-Move Weak-Strike
Switch Step(Move Weak) Jab _SSJ
Clinch-Disengage(Move Weak)-Strike
Move Weak- Engage(Clinch)
Move Weak-(Bait Rear Kick/Catch Kick)
Move Weak-(Bait Rear Kick/Cut Kick)

Use a Push-Drag Step to move laterally at a subtle angle of 45 or go for 90 if your opponent is of a level where getting a 45 is impossible due to his ALSO cutting a 45.

Judah

Shit,sorry Brooks.Didn't realize it came out differently than I had typed it....

Move Weak-Strike

Fake Weak-Move Strong-Strike

Fake Weak-Fake Strong-Move Weak-Strike

You basically sumed-up the above three with this statement.

"If you are comfortable using a lot of footwork, then you can constantly circle your opponent, just outside of his reach. This forces him to constantly adjust to you. As you circle, learn to switch directions quickly and smoothly, and then be ready to take advantage when your opponent misses one of your switches for an instant."

Move Weak- Engage(Clinch)-Strike

You sumed up the one directly above with this statement.

"If you are successful at getting an angle on your opponent while close, its the perfect time to clinch and knee. Clinch knees are MUCH harder to defend against from a side angle, and this can make or break your fight."


Move Weak-(Bait Rear Kick/Catch Kick)

Move Weak-(Bait Rear Kick/Cut Kick)


You sumed-up the above two with this statement.

"When your opponent round kicks, step with the kick to not only absorb the impact, but to also create an angle. If your opponent kicks with his right leg, you step to your right to absorb the blow. Because you have stepped out of the kicks "sweet spot", it becomes harder for him to recover and you have changed your angle so that he is not lined up correctly. You use this same technique to catch a kick. "

Switch Step(Move Weak) Jab _SSJ

Clinch-Disengage(Move Weak)-Strike

The above two are basically just getting unreally good at sitch stepping(i.e.switch kicking) and also commenting on the safest way to brake a clinch if so desired.

Use a Push-Drag Step to move laterally at a subtle angle of 45 or go for 90 if your opponent is of a level where getting a 45 is impossible due to his ALSO cutting a 45.

The above one is basically great to use against ANY type of rushing attack or when someone pounces forward with a combination straight ahead.It works sooo good that you can almost entirely avoid getting hit at all...very similar strategy I am told is used by that one fighter Methee.

Judah

ttt

(I just reread the post above and realized the point I was trying to make)

So anyway, back to the point, boxing does not count that much in a Muay Thai match because boxing is not unique to Muay Thai. Boxing is not what makes Muay Thai Muay Thai, it is the Push Kicks (Teeps), Roundhouse Kicks (Taes), Elbows (Sawks), and Knees (Kaos). Thai's are avid Western Boxing fans, too. But, if they wanted to see boxing, they wouldn't be at the Muay Thai arena.

I teach a lot of Boxing to my students, but the bottom line is that when its time to fight, all the Boxing we have learned should only be used to set up and create angles for your Muay Thai techniques.

Khun Kao

Anderson Silva uses the jab very effectively.

The 5 punches=1 kick isn't *exactly* correct, but I use that example to illustrate how boxing is practically an afterthought in Muay Thai. The truth is, if you are punching your opponent and scoring, but he lands a kick or two, or some knees, then your opponent will win the fight.

We've discussed this before (don't know if its in the Archives or not), but one of the things that really sets Muay Thai apart from other arts is how the ascthetics (sp?) figure into the scoring. Scoring a Muay Thai match isn't entirely based upon who is the more effective fighter. Its a combination of who is the most effective fighter AND who has the better overall Muay Thai technique.

Granted, who has better Muay Thai would ideally only come into play in a close match. In Thailand, its usually a moot point. Where it really comes into play is when Thai's fight foreigners, or foreigners fight other foreigners with Thai judges.

I've heard time and time again how Westerners have gone to compete against the Thai's and thought they were winning their match because they had superior boxing skills. They were shocked to find that they had lost! These same fighters claim that the Thai's are crooked and a foreigner can't win.

The truth of the matter is that these fighters did not do their homework. In Thailand, fight officials CANNOT cheat!!! There is WAY TOO MUCH money riding on the outcome of these matches. Anyone who has ever been to Thailand knows that the national sport may be Muay Thai, but the national pasttime is gambling! Gambling is BIG BUSINESS! You cannot get away with bad decisions in Thailand or you will have a riot on your hands! The gamblers in Thailand really, really know Muay Thai well, and will not tolerate bad decisions.

I've seen taped footage of a riot that ensued after a bad decision. The riot continued until the bad decision was reversed.

So anyway, what was the question again? I got off on another one of my tangents...

Khun Kao