Another Bruce Lee Thread

Just my thoughts for the day:

  • Just spoke to a kettlebell instructor, who I'm going to be training with for the next couple of months or so. I'm looking to increase strength in extreme ranges of motion, so I'm look at this material.

  • Been using some westside concepts in my lifting, and I'm liking the benefits. Lifting tonight using a back/traps program that Chris Thibadeau from t-nation concocted a few years ago. I'm really looking forward to trying this out.

  • I'm going to switch to an s&c phase around june, focusing on kettlebells and westside, plus yoga and sprinting, bag work, bandwork, all the good stuff. But focusing on heavy lifting (on top of sparring, running classes, etc.).

  • Just read Chad Waterbury's article on MMA strength training. Lots of weights in there.

What utterly blows me away is that "the little dragon" was the FIRST to make weights a HUGE part of his training. Over 33 years ago, Bruce did roadwork, weights, heavy bag, focus mitts, sparring, making protein shakes, etc. to go beyond his peers. Lee was basically training like an MMA fighter way back in the late 60's-early 70's! And this was during the days when the black belt, forms, CHI POWER, point-fighting, calisthenics, and the kiai were absolute KING! No self-respecting martial artist (or boxer for that matter) would even consider using weights to build attributes for fighting. They felt it created clumsy, muscle-bound men who were all-show and no-go.

Now, you simply can't go without some form of weight training/conditioning training, if you're to consider MMA as a hobby or sport.

I'm not saying that MMA fighters are training this way now to imitate Bruce Lee. Of course not! BUT, I'm so utterly impressed by that fact that he had the keen awareness to know the TRUTH in conditioning, that he did not give in to the BS that was SO PREVALENT in his day. The man refused to wear uniforms, refused to do forms, refused point-sparring...and had the guts to commit himself to training that produced results.

It's unfortunate that the old nucleus chose to turn him into some feel-good icon, instead of emphasizing what he really was: the first martial artist to make physical conditioning synonymous with fighting prowess.

Bruce Lee was right on with this approach because he was training to fight. He sparred a lot, and wanted to constantly improve his performance. When your goal is performance in fighting, and you actually fight, you will evolve in a certain direction. He did show his brilliance when he began to train with weights when most boxers shunned it.

Agreed... Have u read Terri Tom's "Straight Lead" book yet? It will give u some insight into BL and his JKD.

Mark

"I'm not saying that MMA fighters are training this way now to imitate Bruce Lee. Of course not! BUT, I'm so utterly impressed by that fact that he had the keen awareness to know the TRUTH in conditioning, that he did not give in to the BS that was SO PREVALENT in his day. The man refused to wear uniforms, refused to do forms, refused point-sparring...and had the guts to commit himself to training that produced results."

I am not saying TMA are the greatest, but weight training and strength training has been part of the martial arts for centuries. There are exercises with weighted items that are set in forms in chinese and Okanowan forms.

Here in the USA we decided that you can teach classes 1 hour long three times a week and not have to build strength or conditioning.

Mark:

I haven't yet, but I do plan to take a look at it. I'm in the middle of Thomas Moore's "Dark Night of the Soul."

DK:

If the ancients trained this way for centuries...somewhere along the way, they got rid of it.

"If the ancients trained this way for centuries...somewhere along the way, they got rid of it."

There are still many who train cardio and strength that way. There are a couple sources to find it on DVD, but if you are compareing fighting ability from it then it comes down to realistic training.

Its easy to have a bunch of guys who are in great shape, do great forms but dont/can't fight.

But here in the USA, if it was part of the training it did get lost in the majority of TMA schools.

Bruce who?

"There are still many who train cardio and strength that way. There are a couple sources to find it on DVD"

which DVD's? Also, are these san da guys?

Demi:

Bruce Leroy.

"which DVD's? Also, are these san da guys?"

Iron Vest training
http://www.yamazato-videos.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=195&category=2

Shaolin Muscle Tendon Change Classic

The Shaolin Muscle-Tendon Change Classic is the first qigong form created by the founder of Shaolin Kung Fu and Zen, Bodhidharma. Today, the Shaolin Muscle-Tendon Change Classic (or Yi Jin Jing as it is known in Chinese) is one of the most venerated forms of qigong, used by men and women of all ages, martial artists and non-martial artists alike, to harness and cultivate their natural internal power. Now you can learn this venerated form as taught by Shaolin's most eminent scholar monk, 31st generation Shaolin master Shi De Qian. You will learn all the postures, breathing techniques and even the ancient Chinese names of this cornerstone method. Actually shot within the hallowed courtyards of the original Shaolin Temple of China. (approx. 48 min.)

Stone Warrior
http://www.yamazato-videos.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=194&category=2

A Master?s level exercise set from the Chinese Strength & Health Program. Stone Warrior is the
longest and most difficult of the sets or forms contained within the program. Consisting of seven sets of three exercises for a total of twenty-one exercises, Stone Warrior is designed to build strength, muscle mass and power. As with all the other sets in the program, Stone Warrior does not require any equipment and can be performed in a small space of four to six feet. Tensing the muscles with maximum power to develop the body much like that of weight lifters but without the equipment. For the martial arts student, the exercises all have combat applications to develop the blocking and striking power of the body.

Daily practice of the Stone Warrior begins with learning one set of three exercises each week

for seven weeks, performing each exercise 12 repetitions. Add one repetition each week beginning with 12 and increase to 36 repetitions per exercise. Stone Warrior takes 8 months to complete and is then trained daily at 36 repetitions for a lifetime. Full tension is applied with each exercise throughout the body. Daily practice begins with 15 minutes and 90 minutes at completion.

I am not saying these are the best, and it would take time to find others. I was just poiting out that for a long time they knew that strength training was important.

Todays movies make it look like a 98 pound girl in leather can kick everyones butt.

DK:

Do these exercises use weights in any form? (dumbbells, sandbags, rocks, etc.)? Hard to tell from the description.

I have run across the ones with weights in the past. They are items such as jars filled with sand, iron rings, types of weights.

I havent seen them lately because I havent had a big interest in it.

I would suggest googling kung fu weight training, chinese kung fu health...

Everything is DVD these days, I am sure you can find Kung Fu sex on DVD.

"I am sure you can find Kung Fu sex on DVD."

Sounds like you've googled this. ;)

Thanks for those links.

LoL I should.

"Extend your Chi deep....."

I do not have a date of original publication off hand, but Donn Draeger has a book about weight training for judo. I think it was co-written with Isao Inokuma around 1966. Do a web search because I am sure this predates at least part of Bruce Lee's championing of weight training.

John

ttt

It's called "Judo Training Methods".

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0804832102/sr=8-1/qid=1146772802/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9970756-7775017?%5Fencoding=UTF8

I gave it 2 snaps up!

4 ranges,

John Frankl and TT are correct in that Donn Draeger's book (co-authored with Takashiko Ishikawa) "Judo Training Methods" predates and written material Bruce Lee may have published on the subject.

Donn Draeger introduced weight training to Isao Inokuma who was a All Japan and Olympic Judo champ and Jon Bluming who was a Dutch Judo champ and a friend of Anton Geesink.

The thing about Bruce Lee is this, even though he did introduce alot of interesting training methods to the martial arts and certainly applied these training methods to his own personal live, most if not all of his training methods and information surrounding these training methods were not original.

In fact most can be traced to Physical Education, Exercise Physiology and Kinesiology. Not even Bruce Lee's philosophy is original.

Even the introduction of Bruce Lee's book "Tao of Jeet Kune Do", both Linda Lee and Gilbert L. Johnson (authors of the introduction) admit most of the information Bruce's personal notes provided came from the writing of individuals such as Jack Dempsey, Edwin L. Haislet and Julio Martinez Castello.

My point is Bruce Lee should be credited for actually "applying" scientific information as it relates to physical conditioning to his personal development and training. BUT he definitely shouldn't be credited for be an innovator in the field.

Bruce Lee just took information that was available and used in other activities/sports and applied them to martial arts.

Your post

"My point is Bruce Lee should be credited for actually "applying" scientific information as it relates to physical conditioning to his personal development and training."

From my original post:

"What utterly blows me away is that "the little dragon" was the FIRST to make weights a HUGE part of HIS training."

Ah, what wonders a little capitalizing can do....

But he wasnt the first to make it a huge part. Its been a huge part for centuries. Here in America we love to believe you can beat Mike Tyson with no hard training