im with and Accounting/Financial company so we regularly have loan officers/mortgage guys asking us to send them client info (tax stuff, financials, etc.)
i understand that the industry is trying to be more regulated and stringent with lending amidst the mess of a few years ago.....so i get that you guys would be asking for every little detail
my question for you is, why dont these mortgage guys just give us a COMPREHENSIVE list of everything they need instead of harrassing us or the client every day with something else that they need
the best is when they ask for a bunch of documents one day then call back the next day in their stressed out panicked voice asking for an entire year's financials, balance sheet "BY TODAY" "because both you and I wouldnt want Client A to miss out on the rate we locked in"
they get the client panicked and the client thinks we are not doing our job and the sky is falling
im to the point where i cringe when a client tells me they are refinancing or applying for a loan bc i know i have to deal with inefficient, redundant wanna be gordon gecko mtg guys
I only hear stuff second hand from my brother the mortgage broker, but aren't underwriters pretty much retarded? And by that, i mean they hire like the least qualified people they can find to do that job? It's pretty much thankless data entry, right?
It's sad trying to buy or refinance a loan. You guys all have your heads up your a$$ acting like you didn't know you needed something. It like dealing with people on their first day of work.
here's what generally happens for me (broker/mortgage banker)
i ask a borrower for all of their financial documents (tax returns/K1s/1065s/etc) so i can submit it to the underwriter. the borrower sends me 80% of what i need. i submit it because we have a specific window to get the loan funded.
the underwriter comes back and says "i need the remaining 20% of the documents." i ask you for those and you send them over.
then the underwriter says "well, this looks okay, but i'm also going to need X/Y/Z documents from the CPA" so i ask you for more stuff.
then the underwriter says, "XYZ worked great thanks, just get a letter from the CPA confirming all of these numbers are legit and i'll sign off on it ASAP."
i am completely at the will of an underwriter when it comes to tax documents. in fact i actually got in a bit of trouble on Monday for literally swearing at an underwriter that was conditioning for documents that weren't needed for the approval, she just "didn't feel good about the loan." it is maddeningly frustrating.
thanks for the explanantion
so it really is up to the underwriters i guess
would it reduce the number of calls/requests if we were to send the CPA letter along with all the requested usual docs? (assuming im dealing with the broker directly, not the client as the intermediary)
we are a small company but have a good number of clients so there are entire weeks when we are basically busy just sending over info to mtg and loan guys and it's a PITA for everyone involved
im jsut trying to figure out a way to make the process easier and less stressful
im sick of the frantic phone calls from clients and brokers lol
cruedi - It's sad trying to buy or refinance a loan. You guys all have your heads up your a$$ acting like you didn't know you needed something. It like dealing with people on their first day of work.
because we have a set list of what we normally need for a W2'ed borrower and a self-employed borrower. from there its up to the underwriter to condition for documents. sometimes they condition for a ton of docs, sometimes nothing.
so, in short, i have literally zero control once i ask for the initial stuff what the underwriter is going to ask for.
So in reality there's no need for you. It's just another way of skimming money from the borrower. This is obviously an holdover job from when email/scanning/faxes didn't exist.
I could send stuff to an underwriter just as easily as I could send it to you.
here's what generally happens for me (broker/mortgage banker)
i ask a borrower for all of their financial documents (tax returns/K1s/1065s/etc) so i can submit it to the underwriter. the borrower sends me 80% of what i need. i submit it because we have a specific window to get the loan funded.
the underwriter comes back and says "i need the remaining 20% of the documents." i ask you for those and you send them over.
then the underwriter says "well, this looks okay, but i'm also going to need X/Y/Z documents from the CPA" so i ask you for more stuff.
then the underwriter says, "XYZ worked great thanks, just get a letter from the CPA confirming all of these numbers are legit and i'll sign off on it ASAP."
i am completely at the will of an underwriter when it comes to tax documents. in fact i actually got in a bit of trouble on Monday for literally swearing at an underwriter that was conditioning for documents that weren't needed for the approval, she just "didn't feel good about the loan." it is maddeningly frustrating.
thanks for the explanantion
so it really is up to the underwriters i guess
would it reduce the number of calls/requests if we were to send the CPA letter along with all the requested usual docs? (assuming im dealing with the broker directly, not the client as the intermediary)
we are a small company but have a good number of clients so there are entire weeks when we are basically busy just sending over info to mtg and loan guys and it's a PITA for everyone involved
im jsut trying to figure out a way to make the process easier and less stressful
im sick of the frantic phone calls from clients and brokers lol
thats all
100% that would help.
honestly, if you have self-employed client and he's got all the random shit (business returns, K1s, 1065s, etc) just make an individual PDF for each one and when you find out the guy is refinancing or buying a home send it all over with a coversheet/itemized list so there's no tennis match with the underwriters over whats needed.
exactly the idea i had in mind
to just create a PDF packet with an itemized list
or creating a check box form or list that i could have them fill out and send to us so we know exactly what to send
1. borrowers are fuckign retarded and think they know it all. They hem and haw about what they think they need to provide vs what the mortgage broker told them they need to provide.
2. Agents are shady and think they know it all. They throw shit in hoping it will stick. They have a sub bonus that day and dont give a shit if its missing a declaration page.
3. Underwriters are angry for dealing with shady people (brokers) all day trying to scam some shit through the system while making much less than the brokers themselves.
Let me add, accountants are historically assholes to brokers about what they need. It cracks me up to hear a processor arguing with a borrowers accountant and the dude is telling the processor what she does and doesnt need to get the loan processed. Motherfucker you dont work here, STFU and give the processor what she needs so your own client can get his shit handled.
Shiloh - 5. Let me add, accountants are historically assholes to brokers about what they need. It cracks me up to hear a processor arguing with a borrowers accountant and the dude is telling the processor what she does and doesnt need to get the loan processed. Motherfucker you dont work here, STFU and give the processor what she needs so your own client can get his shit handled.
:)
lol fucking this.
thats one of my absolute favorite arguments to get into.
underwriter says i need 1065's because the client owns more then a certain % of a business. call CPA and ask for them. i say why, CPA makes up 50 fucking excuses why the underwriter shouldn't need them. i tell them if i don't get them the loan is dead. then the client tells me the CPA called him and recommended his mortgage guy to my client because his mortgage doesn't need the same documentation, which is 100% untrue, he's just getting a kickback on the end. client then says fuck the cpa and tells him if he doesn't send over the 1065's he's lost a client and getting blown up on social media. cpa relents and sends it over, loan funds.
LOL exactly. FOr every loan, every month, on repeat.
Shiloh - 5. Let me add, accountants are historically assholes to brokers about what they need. It cracks me up to hear a processor arguing with a borrowers accountant and the dude is telling the processor what she does and doesnt need to get the loan processed. Motherfucker you dont work here, STFU and give the processor what she needs so your own client can get his shit handled.
:)
lol fucking this.
thats one of my absolute favorite arguments to get into.
underwriter says i need 1065's because the client owns more then a certain % of a business. call CPA and ask for them. i say why, CPA makes up 50 fucking excuses why the underwriter shouldn't need them. i tell them if i don't get them the loan is dead. then the client tells me the CPA called him and recommended his mortgage guy to my client because his mortgage doesn't need the same documentation, which is 100% untrue, he's just getting a kickback on the end. client then says fuck the cpa and tells him if he doesn't send over the 1065's he's lost a client and getting blown up on social media. cpa relents and sends it over, loan funds.
lol
as an accountnat i was googling ot see if there was any "beef" btw us and mtg guys but couldnt find anything
i guess it is true!
thankfully our clients are generally good guys and we are a mom n pop shop so we arent assholes (off the bat) to mtg people....they are doing something that our clients need and we obv want to maintain good relationships with clients so we comply and just bite our tongues unless/until the client starts complaining about the inefficiencies themselves
are there any particular banks that have a rep for being hard to deal with? lots of our guys have been using PNC (north jersey area) and they have been really annoying asking for the same exact stuff multiple times....to which we snidely just forward our previously sent emails to them
there is def a funny "friction" btw us and you guys lol
side note, client was unable to open a CHECKING account at wells fargo unless she furnished a full operating agreement for her single member llc which isnt even required to form a company in the state of NJ (on top of the articles of formation, etc).....no borrowing or anything, just a checking account
Shiloh - I am an underwriter. The reasins are this:
1. borrowers are fuckign retarded and think they know it all. They hem and haw about what they think they need to provide vs what the mortgage broker told them they need to provide.
2. Agents are shady and think they know it all. They throw shit in hoping it will stick. They have a sub bonus that day and dont give a shit if its missing a declaration page.
3. Underwriters are angry for dealing with shady people (brokers) all day trying to scam some shit through the system while making much less than the brokers themselves.
4. Really, shit happens.
Mr Wright says #1 isn't the case. He says the underwriter comes back and says he need needs X/Y/Z after you've gotten all the docs you asked for.
I understand your angry reading Mr Wrights posts. Seems he's not needed. Uses the tradition scare tactics ", the amount of fraud that could be done by a direct client/underwriter relationship would make bernie madoff blush" Obviously we're not honest only brokers are.
Shiloh - I am an underwriter. The reasins are this:
1. borrowers are fuckign retarded and think they know it all. They hem and haw about what they think they need to provide vs what the mortgage broker told them they need to provide.
2. Agents are shady and think they know it all. They throw shit in hoping it will stick. They have a sub bonus that day and dont give a shit if its missing a declaration page.
3. Underwriters are angry for dealing with shady people (brokers) all day trying to scam some shit through the system while making much less than the brokers themselves.
4. Really, shit happens.
Some processors/ UWers don't know how to read basic accounting forms which results in multiple requests for info that has already been provided.
It's my experience that mortgage brokers often require more docs and have more back and forth with all parties than direct lenders. Working with multiple lenders and not being as intimate with loan requirements often leads to inefficiencies.
Having said that, like all professions, you have goo and bad direct lenders and mortgage brokers.
Shiloh - I am an underwriter. The reasins are this:
1. borrowers are fuckign retarded and think they know it all. They hem and haw about what they think they need to provide vs what the mortgage broker told them they need to provide.
2. Agents are shady and think they know it all. They throw shit in hoping it will stick. They have a sub bonus that day and dont give a shit if its missing a declaration page.
3. Underwriters are angry for dealing with shady people (brokers) all day trying to scam some shit through the system while making much less than the brokers themselves.
4. Really, shit happens.
Mr Wright says #1 isn't the case. He says the underwriter comes back and says he need needs X/Y/Z after you've gotten all the docs you asked for.
I understand your angry reading Mr Wrights posts. Seems he's not needed. Uses the tradition scare tactics ", the amount of fraud that could be done by a direct client/underwriter relationship would make bernie madoff blush" Obviously we're not honest only brokers are.
He did not say #1 was incorrect. Ask him to clarify, I am 100% sure he will agree.
Underwriter absolutely does come back and say we need X Y and Z. You are not the same as your neighbor, all cases are different.
LOL not sure where you get the angry with Mr Wrights posts, I agree with him. He is needed, I dont want to talk the public idiots. Thats why he gets he big bucks HAHAHA.
mcq - It's my experience that mortgage brokers often require more docs and have more back and forth with all parties than direct lenders. Working with multiple lenders and not being as intimate with loan requirements often leads to inefficiencies.
Having said that, like all professions, you have goo and bad direct lenders and mortgage brokers.
There is some truth to this, however brokers will usually get you a better rate and/or get things past a direct lender would not.
Shiloh - I am an underwriter. The reasins are this:
1. borrowers are fuckign retarded and think they know it all. They hem and haw about what they think they need to provide vs what the mortgage broker told them they need to provide.
2. Agents are shady and think they know it all. They throw shit in hoping it will stick. They have a sub bonus that day and dont give a shit if its missing a declaration page.
3. Underwriters are angry for dealing with shady people (brokers) all day trying to scam some shit through the system while making much less than the brokers themselves.
4. Really, shit happens.
Some processors/ UWers don't know how to read basic accounting forms which results in multiple requests for info that has already been provided.
In my case, a basic PNL was over their head.
I think it would be slightly strange if a processor could not read a basic PNL, but it really doesnt matter. Its the processors job to get the docs the UW wants. If that PNL does not satisfy the UW (for whatever reason), the processor has zero choice. Telling them they are stupid or whatever doesnt solve the problem. We usually see the processor talk to the accounttant, explain what they need, then apologize and suck up their dignity while the accountant belittles them and then after the 20 minute tirade sends over what the processor asked for originally.
Its just people being people. I have no idea how anyone trusts a cop LOL. All people are just dicks LOL.
superlurker2011 - I'm an insurance broker, so I work with the mortgage brokers/loan officers/underwriters every day. I have just come to expect you will always need more of "this or that" all the way up until closing. It's just how it goes, if you complain about it you'll become miserable. If you accept it and realize it's coming then life will be a lot easier. I do my absolute best to make sure everything is done right the first time, but there's almost always something else that comes up. Just roll with the punches......
Exactly. All people in the process are all doing more than they think/thought they were going to do. Its the way it is.
