Does anyone here teach both MMA and TMA?
Having probably seen MMA turning out the most capable fighters (for a 1-on-1 situation at least), why continue to teach TMA? Money? Love of the 'art'? Or a residual belief in its effectiveness?
I'd be really intereted to hear opinions from instructors, but maybe also from students who train TMA and MMA. Why continue with the TMA?
(I'm a TMA'er myself, in the main)
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Does anyone here teach both MMA and TMA?
"Having probably seen MMA turning out the most capable fighters "
I completely disagree that MMA creates the best fighters for a one on one situation. That's just silly. MMA is a ring sport, not a streetfight
Ok, second post and it's started already.
Ah well ...
My BJJ instructor started his school as a Uechi-Ryu school before he learned and Jiu-Jitsu. Then he began taking it and incorporating what he learned into the Karate class. As time passed, a BJJ class was formed, and became more and more popular as the Karate class dwindled. Now we're mainly a BJJ/MMA school (my instructor has a brown belt) with only one Karate class that another black belt (not my instructor) teaches. Where the BJJ class has about 6-8 people on a slow night, the Karate class has about 5 on a rare good night.
I think this is a really good topic. I am a purple belt in BJJ and at my school we also have an MMA curriculem. Originally our MMA class was for fighters but over the years it has grown to be a little bit more like a traditional class. We even have a belt system for our MMA class now. Many times when people come to a martial arts school they expect a certain amount of tradition and respect so I kind of took all of those things and made a class that is almost like a TMA martial arts but with what I feel are more realistic techniques. I personally think this way of thinking may be the future of the martial arts
After class some people will stay around and work on traditional weapons including forms. After realizing the effectivness of BJJ about 10 years ago I stopped my weapons training but so many people have asked me to show them traditional weapons that I started practicing again. The weapons training for me is is just kind of fun and just adds to my school. Also one of my new years resolutions this year is to get a black belt in JJJ. I love practicing the art and I think it will help my credentials as an instructor.
"I kind of took all of those things and made a class that is almost like a TMA martial arts but with what I feel are more realistic techniques"
a couple of the questionable things about TMA include both unrealistic techniques as you mentioned, but also unrealistic training methods (unlike all the good MMA stuff: aliveness, progressive resistance, full contact sparring etc).
A well as realistic techniques, are your training methods different to TMA in your new-style TMA class?
A lot depends upon what you call "traditional"
but that's a whole different argument probably?
Very true; Muay Thai, for example, is a very "traditional" art, but no one seems to think of it as such.
I have trained in TMA, MMA, boxing, MT, etc...and there are great aspects to each. The time I spent learning Chen taiji and Yin Baguazhang I wouldn't trade for anything...
And for all the doubters bagua is a pretty kick ass grappling and throwing art, at least the way I was taught it. I STILL use a lot of the concepts and techniques when I clinch.
"A lot depends upon what you call "traditional"
but that's a whole different argument probably? "
Yeah, there's no real definition. But I'm referring to karate, Japanese JJ, Judo, Tae-kwon-do, kung fu etc, where no hard-contact takes place. (Although Judo is in a grey zone). Practice of self defense occurs mainly through practicing defense to pre-arranged attacks on a cooperating (or at least non-resisting partner). Often 1-man kata/forms are done.
"But I'm referring to karate, Japanese JJ, Judo, Tae-kwon-do, kung fu etc, where no hard-contact takes place."
You've never been thrown even moderately hard, have you?
"You've never been thrown even moderately hard, have you?"
Actually I've done Judo for a few years and I love it, which is why I said Judo was in a grey zone. I think it is an excellent component of a self-defense system. IMHO, it isn't in the MMA-type zone because of the lack of strikes and practice against strikes.
As for being thrown hard, I have a class 2-3 AC joint separation from being thrown, thank you very much. Couldn't do a push up for about 6 months.
"I've been known to teach both :-)"
What's your motivation for continuing to do so? Does one take precedence over the other? Do you recommend students to do both or concentrate on one?
"kung fu" or traditional Chinese martial arts often in the old days involved a lot of throws and a lot of contact, in Shuai Jiao we did throws on wood floor, most of the kung fu schools I was in, we sparred with boxing gloves ...
That's the type of kung fu that would appeal to me. In my limited experience of kung fu and its practitioners I have so far not come across that.
"IMHO, it isn't in the MMA-type zone because of the lack of strikes and practice against strikes."
Judo trains striking just as much as BJJ does.
"Judo trains striking just as much as BJJ does. "
Maybe (this is getting hard). In the BJJ schools I am familiar with there is typically a self defense and often MMA component.
But pure sport BJJ and Judo would be equivalent for the purposes of my argument, I agree. But both are in my 'grey zone' because of rolling and randori - basically whatever their limitations (sport-orientation) they make damn sure their stuff works and that they can pull it off.
Cool. Anyway, I'm about to get back into BJJ in a couple days (yay me!) Why? because it works.
I also started training in Muay Thai a few months ago. Why? I hooked up with a MT guy to do some sparring and got thrashed. I was hooked!
Still practice my Shuai Chiao though and still consider myself a SC guy. Why? Because it's a lot of fun to tell MMA people that you do Kung Fu and then slam them on the mat when they give you the cocky "here's another TMA fool we need to convert" look.
I have to admit that I enjoy sparring at my old TKD school, although my style is more slanted towards kickboxing now. I don't really practice any of the techniques really, except certain kicks. I definately don't do any forms. I just enjoy the competition and quickness of the sparring sessions.
Very good thread, btw.
I think Guy Mezger does.