ANYTHING useful about aikido?

Do you guys think its possible for anyone to make aikido work in a resisting situation? I've seen the crappy demonstrations and the crappy westerners demonstrate it, but it comes from arts that comprise the standing "jujutsu" back in the day. Can standing joint lock techniques work?

[note: I was going to post this a long time ago for that troll guy A&B but Journal of Asian Martial Arts (which was too expensive for my cheap ass to buy) had an interview with a live in disciple of aikido's founder who lived with him for like 5 years and he said that he would get mad for no reason then be cool (refuting claims of his saintlike demeanor) and the supernatural stuff was bullshit. I wish I could quote directly from the journal]

"ANYTHING useful about aikido?"

An excuse for a man to wear a dress?

I think it is possible to make Aikido work in a resisting situation...

The hard part about standing locks is that you can't immobilize the body (like the ground does, or for an example a second person/LEO can)... anytime the person moves you have to re-adjust.

I still think it is possible. But I think to a great deal it depends on how that the other factors add up... some people you can do anything to

That's the funny thing about Harimiu Silat... I always thought if I sooo outclassed a person who when they threw a punch at me, I was able to dive between their legs (for whatever takedown, destruction...), they probably didn't really pose much of a threat to me.


Paul brings up a great point. I often tell people that Aikido is great against drunks, children and small women. Even then, it's 'iffy'.

I have an article about Bernie Lau, who has a fourth degree black belt under Tohei and Ueshiba himself. In the article, he tells how trying to use Aikido in an undercover drug bust, he was DEA or something, nearly got his partner killed. It was then that he had to seriously reevaluate his training and decided to turn toward other arts to help. His base is now Aikijitsu with other things blended in.

Another article that I have was written by a high level instructor under Gozo Shioda, the highest ranking black belt ever given by Ueshiba. In the article, he basically flat out say's that Aikido simply isn't good enough for the street by itself. He has added Muay Thai and wrestling to his own arsenal.

I'd love to write more, but alas, I must go teach a private lesson! Maybe more later!

BTW, March is "Aikido Sucks" month on Check out the forum.

One of my old classmates had studied aikido for 10 years. Had his hakama, his black belt and everything. He even had another 12 years of hsing-yi.

Poor guy got tooled in every drill, from stand-up, to ground, to weapons. He was a really nice guy, and really open to the JKD training that Armando was offering. He had lots of heart, lots of determination, but when he fell to his old training, he got tooled.

After a few months of training there, I asked him about his aikido training, and how he feels it contributes to his overal development. He then said "there's nothing worse than putting 10 years of your life into an art that's basically shit."

Mind you, this classmate of mine was Japanese, straight from Japan, which can still be extremely traditional and closed-minded about their arts. So for HIM to say that, says a whole lot of what aikido did for him.

I heard it sometimes helps you pick up chicks, assuming they train at your school and believe you can actually do any of that crap.

I was lucky enough to train with a lot of high level Aikido guys (like instructors from the world HQ) at Gracie Japan (now Axis BJJ). It was cool that they realized they needed to crosstrain (don't we all?) but they really had nothing in terms of functional grappling.


I remember a story in the news a year or two ago about a criminal who attempted to make a run for it in the courtroom.

One of the prosecutors for the next case was in the seat closest to the door, and he was an aikido practitioner. When he looked up and saw the guy running his way, he stood up and CLEANED him with an irimi-nage style clothesline.

I guess sometimes people WILL give you a 100%committed forward energy.... :)

Seriously, it seems to me that if one could find a way to train some aikido techniques in an alive, resistant fashion, I'm sure they'd see some results. (Maybe not ALL the techniques would be possible, but I'm sure many of them could.) The only question then would be how likely it is to make them "high percentage" techniques.

Does anybody know much about Tomiki Aikido? If memory serves, that's the style that has competitions involving resisting opponents. Most traditional Aikido guys don't seem to like the Tomiki guys, because they consider it "tricks" to make the techniques work rather than "technique".


I use aikido in my grappling all the time. Actually just the wrist manipulation. I have used wrist locks to take the back, take people to their back, tap people out and to disrupt their techniques like guard passes. I don't really know anything else about aikido but the wrist locks have raised my game. I have even used wrist locks to takedown wrestlers. Just my 2 cents.

robjvoss, I would argue that you are still not using Aikido. Wristlocks are found in many, many systems and Aikido does not have the monopoly. Jiujitsu already has the wristlocks in the game. Also, what makes Aikido different is their movements and the use of 'ki' in getting and applying those same wristlocks.

Aikidoka are so strict in their beliefs of how aikido must be applied that they feel that Gozo Shioda, who I referred to earlier, is not a 'true' Aikidoka even though he is the highest ranking belt ever to come out from Ueshiba. They feel that since his Aikido is more like the early stages of the art's development rather than the last, that his aikido is not 'true' aikido.

"They feel that since his Aikido is more like the early stages of the art's development rather than the last, that his aikido is not 'true' aikido."

Boy THIS sure sounds familiar doesn't it? "Earlier" vs. "Later", "Original" vs.....

Hahaha!! Yeah, what's funny is that the early version of Aikido was much more like Aikijitsu. It was 'harder' and used more atemi. That was back in the day when they would beat the hell out of each other and thus, it was probably more effective!

Thanksfor the info. I still like using them.

Original Aikido, Renegade Aikido, Functional Aikido, Aikido Concepts, Aikido 1929....can you imagine if they had as many variations as the JKD community? :)

there was a post on the underground a few days ago about sparring an aikido practioner; below is my reply to that post:

A friend of mine, who has been training Aikido for the last 4 years,
came to visit me from out of state a few weeks ago. My friend is 6'5"
250 lbs and I'm only 5'6" 135 lbs. I have a few years of BJJ training
and a few years of JKD training and have been working out with friends
in my garage for the past couple years.

My friend and I both wanted to do some light sparring to see how
effective our material was against each other's. First, I put on some
boxing gloves and did just standup to see how he could deal with it
using his Aikido. I was amazed at how much I peppered him with
punches and the only thing he was able to do that was even halfway
effective a couple times was rush me and shove me back when I ran out
of room in my garage and didn't circle quickly enough. The funny
thing was that he said he didn't even mean to do that and was trying
some Aikido move that didn't work.

We then did some grappling starting from the knees. He had great
balance and it was difficult for me to get a good position against him
or pull off any subs except for one RNC I got after taking his back.
He tried some move and left himself open which allowed my to do an arm
drag and take his back.

Next we moved to standing clinch work with strikes. Again, I was able
to tear him up with strikes but starting from the clinch he was able
to move me around better than before. At one point I threw a couple
strikes and attempted a single leg but found myself just standing
there holding on to his leg. LOL. I never realized how difficult it
would be to take down someone that had so much size and weight on me.
At one point we both ended up on the ground and I was able to get the
mount and throw punches. He didn't know what to do which surprised me
as I always figured I wouldn't stand a chance maintaining mount
against a big guy.

Later during his visit we went to a local Aikido school that's
affiliated with the one he's being going to. He wanted to take a
class and I wanted to watch. Wow, the whole class was nothing but one
technique after another where the "attacker" charged with an
exaggerated overhand chop, or an outstretched hand which was meant to
grab or push. The "defender" then sidestepped and grabbed the
"attacker's" arm to perform a wrist lock or other control that led to
a take down. The whole time during the technique, the "attacker"
stood by and let the "defender" manipulate his arm and get it just
right. There was of course no resistance.

This was the first time I have ever seen an Aikido class or sparred
with someone that has trained in it. Unfortunately, I was not
impressed in the least bit. Granted, my friend has "only" been
training for 4 years so maybe someone that's been doing it longer
would be able to apply the moves against a resisting opponent.

I started out in TMA and did 7 years of kung fu before moving to BJJ
and JKD. While I have absolutely no desire to go back to TMA, I don't
think all TMAs are a waste of time as long as they are trained
properly which means not doing everything against a
compliant/non-resisting partner. Also I don't think any TMA is in and
of itself all you'll ever need. The first kung fu school I went to
claimed to be a "Master System" which to them meant once you got a
black belt in their style, you would have enough fighting knowledge
that you would never have to train in another style. While I liked
the training there and thought they did a good job with full contact
sparring etc., I do not believe there is such a thing as a "Master

I got my butt handed to me by a gentleman who is a black belt in aikido and traditional JJ......

....but then again, he's also a BB in judo and a Roy Harris Brown Belt in BJJ. :)

And BOY is he smooth when he rolls!

I think traditional JJ can be good as a supplement to someone who is good at Judo or BJJ.

Funny you should say that....I agree!

I'm about to resume training in JJJ again. Imagine what the neighbors will think!

If you want to see real combative aikido check out WWW.AIKIDOG.COM. Jason Delucia also has videos out showing his brand of effective aikido

Read "Angry White Pyjamas" by Robert Twigger. Basically about the time he spent in Japan training Akido with the Tokyo riot police.

If I remember correctly he recalls a situation in a night club with high level Akido guys where a fight broke out and none of them used Akido! You can just imagine these high level Akido guys, drunk and swinging big windmill punches. Is a really funny book and a great insight into Japanese culture.

Peyton Quinn in one of his books talks about the merits of Akido but more to do with the principles. I.e. use their attacking force to ram their head into the bar edge.