Are These People Evil?...

fudo, let's break it down. "Sin" means to fall short of a perfect standard. Mankind is fallible not infallible. As such, we all "sin".

P.S. is patriotism only and all bad? You seem to have it in for people who love their country.


Sorry, no time at the moment. Will get back.

Prof.

""Sin" means to fall short of a perfect standard. Mankind is fallible not infallible. As such, we all "sin". "

imo, each and everyone of us can´t be any different at the moment then we are. so from that perspective (which I believe to be Gods perspective) we are perfect as we are right now, always. I don´t see the point of comparing us humans, as we are right now, with some kind of "perfect standard", if it wasn´t for the psychological effects it has to be less emotionally and intellectually independent.

"is patriotism only and all bad? You seem to have it in for people who love their country"

well, this is a tricky one.. and it touches alot of emotional issues that are sensitive. my point here is that it´s of course not bad to love your country. what´s bad is when that love is only a slightly "extended egoism" or tribalism, which means that you love something at the expense of something else. ime, many that loves their country with great affection, sometimes (often?) have the perspective that they are a bit better, more moral, more rightoes then people from other countries. People from those countries of course thinks the exact same thing about themselves, which is the irony. This is the first step to create a division between people (or your brother as Jesus says)

The trick imo is to rise above that level of arbitrary and emotional perspectives, to be able to embrace all humanity, to see that every single one of us, is a "brother" to be loved. and I don´t think that can be done aslong you think some "deserve" your love more then others. I know I wasn´t very clear here, but do you understand what I´m trying to say?

fudo, thanks for your response. Do you think it's incorrect to elevate certain positive aspects of ones society or community if they are "superior". For instance, I believe that the free market is superior to totalitariansm. I believe that the West has a superior record on human rights then the Middle East etc.

fudo, you also said that we are "perfect" as we are now and it's not useful to judge against a perfect standard. Couldn't we look just at societal standards and societal benchmarks (laws). I mean how many people rape, kill, kidnap, embezzle etc.?!? Isn't that a reflection of our communal falliblities.

Or on a more personal level, what about our own personal codes of honor...ever transgressed yours? I mean, how many times have we ever said, "that's the last time I'm going to (lie, cheat, eat donuts, whatever). We can't even keep our own standards. What is perfect in the "now" about greed, or coveting other people's stuff, or lying etc?!?

"Do you think it's incorrect to elevate certain positive aspects of ones society or community if they are "superior". "

Not at all, I mean after all it´s just opinions and if it can be measured empirically in some way, it can even be called a fact. :)

"Isn't that a reflection of our communal falliblities."

 I think this shows that there is a conflict between what we want to do and what we actually are able to do. I think the Bible says something about this..

"the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (matthew 26)

 

"We can't even keep our own standards. "

Exactly, same tendency there.

"What is perfect in the "now" about greed, or coveting other people's stuff, or lying etc?!? "

If we do those things to others, we do it because we don´t have sufficiant empathy with our brother (which is another way of saying that we don´t really love our brother), but as the Bible points out, this is just not a matter of wanting to do the "right" thing. we are so used to care more about ourselves and our selfish needs, so that has become a very strong habit to break. So we need to be a bit tolerant with ourselves aswell imo. we need to experience more before our "flesh" can do what the "spirit" wants..

 

fudo, I agree. I would just call those failures part of our sin nature. That corrupt part of ourselves that wants to lie, steal, murder, cheat etc.

Ok, nice. we have now agreed on two threads in a short time. what is the world coming to?? lol

*runs to start a thread about homosexuals*

 ;-)

LOL

Thread idea: rooster should have to have any children he ever has raised by homosexuals grouped in a complicated system, totally unlike the current definition of marriage.

Prof bellows: Hold on , hold on. As the initiator of this thread I hold supreme authority over it's direction. There'll be no wishy-washy makin' of friends until I say so!


minotaurolover,

--"my Bible gives a clear definition of what I am saying. It comes from your HEART."--

Well, that turns out to be exceedingly unreliable.
That which goes against someone's "heart" - their internally held sense of right or wrong - turns out to be incredibly variable between people, and can even change with different phases of an individual's life. Even if you tried to claim there is some sort of objective "good/evil" detector written into us by God, human experience shows that to be false.

No truly objective touchstone for morals or recognizing evil has ever been demonstrated by Christians.

Prof.


The rev wrote:

--"Yes Prof, I believe these people have done evil. I believe that no matter how justified they think they are, they have given over to their fallen nature and done evil."--

Rev, can you tell me what exactly is "evil" about what those people in the picture? Are they evil for having transgressed any particular law of God? Or is it your personal sense of morals and injustice that they violate? I'm looking for how exactly you define and identify what is "evil."

Thanks.

Prof.

chemical sage:Thread idea: rooster should have to have any children he ever has raised by homosexuals grouped in a complicated system, totally unlike the current definition of marriage.

me: riiiight....good idea....not.

Prof.: Check out "The origin of evil..." please.

-Tom Bombadil