Arguments for PED's?

PED is a bad word in the world of sports. And while I don't credit a illegal enhancement as the sole reason for a successful career, Andy will always have "cheater" next to his name for some people, even if this has a reasonable explanation.

What are the reasons for PED's? Some people are for it. Are many people ignorant to the truth, myself included? According to some, every fighter is on them so can everyone be wrong? I'm against, but I'm ready to hear the arguments for.... Phone Post

one of the ped's andy took was to help with bone healing, the other to keep estrogen levels in check

yomamafool - one of the ped's andy took was to help with bone healing, the other to keep estrogen levels in check

Seems legit and in the spirit of genuine healing if true, but why illegal then? Phone Post

I think the main argument for is that you can have a 39 year old still compete with 31 yr olds. It definitely lengthens the careers of fighters, all the great MMA fighters that fought at the highest level while older such as Vitor, Randy, Hendo, are all linked to at minimum TRT. The greatest fight in MMA history IMO Hendo vs Shogun simply wouldn't have happened unless Hendo had been able to keep his career at that level through at minimum TRT. Perhaps the greatest champion story which is when Randy came back out of retirement when he was 40 or so and completely dominated the HW champ. I don't think he would have been able to compete at that level without whatever he was on.

Then you look at Penn who people are trying to make as the poster boy for drug free fighting was declining by his early 30's, and was washed up by the age of 33.

The argument against is that people shouldn't need to harm themselves to compete with the person standing across from them. Ronda shouldn't need to make herself like a 80's German Swim team female and fuck up her body for the rest of her life in order to fight someone like Cyborg.

People are using PED's just enough to get an advantage and not get caught. AS maybe didn't expect the out of competition testing, i'm not sure. But he passed the fight day one, these guys know what they're doing in order to avoid tests if they know when it's coming. If there wasn't that competition day test, then I think these guys would be using even more than they are now to get an even greater advantage, and you'd see guys with real health problems later in life. Particularly the women.

Rear Naked Bloke - 
yomamafool - one of the ped's andy took was to help with bone healing, the other to keep estrogen levels in check

Seems legit and in the spirit of genuine healing if true, but why illegal then? Phone Post


Because he just made that up.

As a selfish spectator i just want to be entertained, and dont really care that much. I loved Pride, and it didnt really bother me that most of the fighters were using as long as it was an even playing field. At the same time i think it is cheating and morally wrong. Its also unfair that anyone that wants to compete at the top more or less has to use. So ideally, i wish the sport was completely drug free but thats not realistic. In reality its either a choice between no testing and having an even playing field, or testing which at best reduces ped use but also robs us of fights and shorten fighters careers. Phone Post 3.0

Whambo - I think the main argument for is that you can have a 39 year old still compete with 31 yr olds. It definitely lengthens the careers of fighters, all the great MMA fighters that fought at the highest level while older such as Vitor, Randy, Hendo, are all linked to at minimum TRT. The greatest fight in MMA history IMO Hendo vs Shogun simply wouldn't have happened unless Hendo had been able to keep his career at that level through at minimum TRT. Perhaps the greatest champion story which is when Randy came back out of retirement when he was 40 or so and completely dominated the HW champ. I don't think he would have been able to compete at that level without whatever he was on.

Then you look at Penn who people are trying to make as the poster boy for drug free fighting was declining by his early 30's, and was washed up by the age of 33.

The argument against is that people shouldn't need to harm themselves to compete with the person standing across from them. Ronda shouldn't need to make herself like a 80's German Swim team female and fuck up her body for the rest of her life in order to fight someone like Cyborg.

People are using PED's just enough to get an advantage and not get caught. AS maybe didn't expect the out of competition testing, i'm not sure. But he passed the fight day one, these guys know what they're doing in order to avoid tests if they know when it's coming. If there wasn't that competition day test, then I think these guys would be using even more than they are now to get an even greater advantage, and you'd see guys with real health problems later in life. Particularly the women.

Ok. I mean, it seems like its an obvious advantage for older fighters. Is that bad? I understand it comes with long term health issues, but so do shots to the head when you're 40. Are all forms of PED's equally evil? Phone Post

Whambo - 
Rear Naked Bloke - 
yomamafool - one of the ped's andy took was to help with bone healing, the other to keep estrogen levels in check

Seems legit and in the spirit of genuine healing if true, but why illegal then? Phone Post


Because he just made that up.

Also, if true.

Why did he test positive for it a month ago when he was fully healed and back in training longer than that.

Rear Naked Bloke - 
yomamafool - one of the ped's andy took was to help with bone healing, the other to keep estrogen levels in check

Seems legit and in the spirit of genuine healing if true, but why illegal then? Phone Post


i read you saying this on another forum. masteron does not simply "keep estrogen in check". it also makes you lean, hard, and strong. The strength gains you can achieve with it are no joke.

The purpose of spectator sports is create a spectacle. In order to put on extraordinary performances not possible for the rest of the population, these guys benefit enormously from medical enhancement.

As for health risks, the long-term health risks of using PEDs in training camp are far less than the long-term health risks of competing in the first place.

shaqitup - 
Whambo - 
Rear Naked Bloke - 
yomamafool - one of the ped's andy took was to help with bone healing, the other to keep estrogen levels in check

Seems legit and in the spirit of genuine healing if true, but why illegal then? Phone Post


Because he just made that up.

Also, if true.

Why did he test positive for it a month ago when he was fully healed and back in training longer than that.

...because he was cheating.

research the two drugs. everyone is talking about the masteron but not the androstane. the androstane makes him look even guiltier because of its healing implications; not less guilty.

masterons primary usage is as an estrogen blocker in breast cancer patients.

Better training, better recovery, better fights.

I think the more interesting question is why do we draw a line in the sand and consider some things PED's while other things that clearly assist with performance are perfectly fine.

For instance, caffeine is allowed as long as you keep it under a certain level. Cortisone shots are allowed even though they are masking pain and inflammation that would otherwise affect a person's performance. Painkillers are allowed when recovering from working out or surgery, maybe some advil for sore muscles or joints and maybe some opiate based heavy drugs for dealing with surgery pain. Those are assisting someone with recovery, but Steroids are not allowed to be used to recover from working out more efficiently.

Guys get metal plates and rods inserted into their broken bones or ligaments to help set them and heal properly, and this is ok. Why is that ok, but using certain things to help cut weight is not?

Protein powders and pre-workout powders are fine as long as they don't contain substances already deemed to be illegal, but both of these items can assist you with recovering better and working out harder respectively. Taking supplements that give you additional vitamins and minerals is ok, but taking testosterone supplements is not ok. Its ok to eat things that might increase your natural testosterone production, but not take synthetic test outright.

I find these arbitrary rules fascinating and am curious how you guys feel about it.

The main argument for use of PED's: the extreme pressure of the sport.

1) Pressure from biology: PED's may be necessary to a) perform and b) recover.

2) Pressure from Zuffa: entertaining fighters get richer; they are featured prominently on cards and given POTN bonuses. Zuffa may say they want to clean the sport, but for all practical purposes, they are the first to want the fighters to use.

3) Pressure from fans to perform excitingly.

4) Pressure from the sport itself: the extreme demands of training and sparring.

PED's may be essential to the livelihood (maybe even life) of most MMA fighters.

I'm for more entertaining fights. I also think "the system" has an long history of lying to people about the effects of drugs to scare people away in an effort to control everyone. This is something I just can't stand. If we want to call ourselves a free society then we should have as many options as possible if we aren't causing harm to others. Where do people get this overinflated sense of power to tell others what they can do with their own bodies? And how can people just lie down and accept it?

I also think contrary to popular belief steroids and hormones can be used responsibly without serious long-term effects. It could actually make people healthier for all we know. HGH is well known for its healing effects which leads to another reason I'm for PEDs. Fewer injuries.

I also think the fighter safety line is completely arbitrary. If any of us REALLY cared about fighter safety we wouldn't watch the sport at all. It is just not safe. That's undeniable, so I always see that argument at hypocritical.

One could also make an argument about fairness. Is it really fair that someone has a higher testosterone level than another? No. It's the genetic lottery. That's not fair at all.

And last but not least. It's simply impossible to stop anyway. Regulation is better than prohibition. Society should have learned this from the failed war on drugs. But most people are still stuck in denial. A society with no recreational drug use must be a very dismal place where people have no freedoms at all. Phone Post 3.0