what are some of your favorite ways of dealing with the stack pressure
when attempting to do the basic armbar from the guard? especially
ones when dealing with a stronger opponent with good base.
for example, i trap their right arm, swing my left leg over their head
and get into perfect position to execute the armbar, but (everyone but
newbies) of course locks their arms, drives forward and stacks me
hard.
sometimes i'll look to grab/hook their left knee and pull myself toward
it looking for the sweep/roll but sometimes their base is too good for
the sweep.
other times i'll shoot my hips up as much as i can and try to dig my
right arm in for an underhook on their left arm, drop my hips back
down and try to pop their grip off to work an armcrush or omoplata/
kimura. this rarely works unless they are also transitioning.
usually i end up getting stalled in a little uncomfortable ball with my
knees being pushed into my face. in these cases is it better to wait
and see what they do (like wait for the pass attempt)?
I tend to go face down, on my side, facing his feet to finish....
sometimes if theyre really stacking, there will be too much pressure on my spine. At that point I usually attempt pendulum or escape to guard. Keep in mind, its usually the guys who outweigh me by 30 pounds or more who are able to put enough pressure from stacking to keep me from turning face down...its not too hard to do to most people.
when you are face down you can grab the ankle closest to you and turn him over in order to get a top position armbar.
I do the same thing as spooky... exactly. I think this is the best counter in the stack vs the armbar situation.
Though one way I change it sometimes is to end up in the same end position, but instead of going face down to get on my side, I roll my neck in toward their legs so my body turns to the inside and rotates to the inside. So you end up on your side facing their feet, but instead of going face down and rotating to the outside to get there, you rotate to the inside to get on your side facing their feet. This takes the pressure off your spine, since you're just flowing with their stack.
A couple of other ideas: Your leg over his head- angle it away from him, it puts more pressure on his head and he will have a much more difficult time stacking you. I know it seems hard to believe but it works. (Saw that on a Straight Blast DVD). Also keep knees tight and use your palms and push quickly up on your thighs. This will straighten him up for a moment while you finish the arm bar.
Hope this stimulates ideas.
I've had some luck in the past with flower sweep and switching to the triangle, as well as going out the back door to take a belly-down armbar.
Flower sweep when they first start to stack, catching them in the transition. Finish the armbar or just take mount. Assuming they are larger than you are (which is a safe bet), it won't work if you are already all the way on your shoulders with all their body mass on you. As a result, you have to go for it as soon as you feel that they are coming forward to stack you up.
Triangle. They are stacking, locking their hands, and usually trying to take their arm back. Hold onto their arm with enough force that they have to pull to get it back. When they do, immediately shift your hips so that they face the opposite direction and transition to the triangle. The hip switch has to be timed properly or they will be able to posture out. Worst case, you end up back in guard and have to start from square one. Or they pass. I guess that's really the worst case. Sometimes, after you transfer to the triangle, they will start to pass and you will have to kick your leg back over for the triangle. So it's important that you keep control of the arm that you want to trap for the triangle.
Hope that helped a little. Later man. Say hey to Christian for me.
I agree with AFTC. This is the best counter against the armbar stack there is, in my opinion. Done correctly, there is no way what he can stack you. NO way. Try it out. You'll see.
Basically, the trick is to push down with your calf, not on his neck but on the TOP OF HIS HEAD.
That way, his NECK muscles become the weak link in the muscles he needs to use to stack you. I've tried this against the strongest guy in my gym (I'd guess that he's about 3 times as strong as me) and he couldn't stack me. It was even hard for me, as I was singing the national anthem at the same time he was almost shitting in his pants out of effort. He thought it was really cool, as does everyone that tries it out. I teach this to EVERYONE I teach the armbar from the guard to.
Just note that spinning completely 90 degrees really helps you to be ABLE to position your calf like that. I often like to stiff-arm his head just before throwing my leg over his head. Finally, I just about always get my leg on his shoulder before getting it over his head.
thanks for all the feedback. i was trying a few of the different things
out yesterday with some good success. the palms on thighs push is
really effective too and with the gi the added friction was really helpful
in preventing them from slipping out the arm. calf on the back of the
head is pretty damn cool. i think i have an unconscious fear of
spinning to a belly down armbar as i've tweaked my neck in the past.
guess i just need to "build a stronger neck".
ryan! you're absolutely right about the timing. great to hear from you
and glad to see you're doing do great down at NoVA! Congrats again
on all the wins and blue! You're definitely missed up here. Gone for
good?
one last questions. do you guys work any specific gi/collar attacks
that can be added once you're completely stacked? I've been trying to
dig my hand in (armbar on their right arm) and grab their right lapel to
work for a choke, but found that the space needed to get my hand
through also allowed for them to explode and get their arm out so i
just hit the omoplata.
"one last questions. do you guys work any specific gi/collar attacks that can be added once you're completely stacked? I've been trying to dig my hand in (armbar on their right arm) and grab their right lapel to work for a choke, but found that the space needed to get my hand through also allowed for them to explode and get their arm out so i just hit the omoplata."
I can't help you much there, since I currently don't train in gi-BJJ, but when I get totally stacked, I sometimes just go back to the high guard (leg on shoulder guard) and begin all over again. From that high guard, the flower sweep sometimes works well.
I'd like to ask one question in relation to the "calf on the top of the head trick":
It's a nice trick and it stops the stack, but still I'm wondering if one shouldn't focus too much on it and rather work on sweeping the guy onto his back and finish the armbar there. For the sweep, you underhook his near leg and just push him down with your legs. For this sweep, it doesn't really matter so much where your legs are pushing, i.e. it's not as critical to push on the top of the head, as opposed to the neck.
The calf on the top of the head trick is nice and stops the stack, but still your opponent has some leverage over you, if he's strong, and can sometimes throw you around a bit and make you work for it more than if you have him on his back.
one thing which i got to work once was by using the calf on the back of
the head, they eventually were about to shrugged it off and pop their
head out so i switched my hips and placed my left shin across their
throat, my foot hooking behind their head (almost in a gogoplata
position). left elbow on the mat and kicked my right leg over their head
and attacked their Left arm with an armbar. I wasn't able to unlock
their grip (damn gi) and finish the sub, but it created for an interesting
position/alternative. (this is a jj machado thing i think).
"The calf on the top of the head trick is nice and stops the stack, but still your opponent has some leverage over you, if he's strong, and can sometimes throw you around a bit and make you work for it more than if you have him on his back. "
That's why I use the getting to your side facing their legs and grab their near ankle to help you roll them to their back techique. You can waste a lot of energy trying to pry someone's arm out when your stacked and against a lot of tough guys, you may never get it and your energy got wasted. I always prefer to get them to their back first, whether by flower sweep or spinning under and then using their feet to roll them.
It was drilled into me to have good head control for the arm bar from guard. Done properly they can't stand up, if they do then you have it wrong.
I will try and get the lock from guard as opposed to transition them to their back, but of course sometimes that's what ends up happening. but thats me.