Atheist Rant

Unlike you I have no personal experience of God. I have never encountered anything supernatural, only the natural. All I have is your claim about God. I have not only your claim to consider, but if I'm to be fair, there are many other religions and thousands of other supernatural claims as well.

I think we would both agree that it is clear mankind has a propensity to make mistakes, to believe fervently in many things that turn out to be wrong, including a vast number of supernatural deities and superstitions that both you and I consider dubious. History is packed to bursting with supernatural beliefs that have been supplanted by naturalistic explanations, once we gained more knowledge.

And people don't just make these mistakes historically; psychology and other human studies tell us it's still part of the human condition to create and hold erroneous beliefs.

So given that we would both agree that there are many mistaken claims for the supernatural, and given that the conviction of a believer is no indicator of the truth of his claim, and given that I have no evidence of the supernatural, and that you cannot present any evidence of the supernatural beyond your conviction (or beyond an ancient book), is it not reasonable on my part to hold some skepticism when presented with your beliefs?

- Prof (

Not my words, I wish they were. I thought this might be appreciated here. I've been stewing for days thinking about Rev john's post on the OG on saturday or sunday, and thought perhaps this articulates my position far better than I may have portrayed there.

I have no idea what Rev. John posted this weekend, and don't have time to review all of the threads.

But your post was very interesting. I myself, am a very solid believer in The Creator (GOD ... whatever name you want to use). But I do truly see where many atheist & agnostic people get their views.

Many of today's religions are pretty silly in that people are so very fanatic about defending & proving their position & personal belief that they fail to see that there is absolutely zero proof either way. Placing one's "truth" on an "ancient book" or any particular belief system "inspired" by GOD is no truth at all. If it is, then there are many,many truths (and perhaps there are!!), as all religious books were invariably inspired by GOD. Someone has "visions" and it's the word of GOD. Others have "visions" and they're declared insane.

Some of the more interesting readings are people such as Rudolph Steiner, Edgar Cayce, Emanuel Swedenborg ... people who spent their entire life trying to find the truth. They all had "visions" and they were VERY interesting indeed. Granted Swedeborgs's vision of men on the moon may have been a bot off ... whatever. No more difficult to believe than MANY stores I've read in other 'books'.

I cannot even argue about religion anymore because it's "inarguable". Like trying to explain to someone that a red table is red, but they keep saying it's blue. because that's the way their eyes see it. How can I explain that I see it as red??? Obviously our vision is different.

SO to me specific religions are NOT for me at all, but they seem fine for others ... to each their own.

Now as for The Creator ... to me it makes sense. But I cannot explain why. My sense of GOD is more from my studies of the universe than my studies of religion.

But hey ... it's fun to talk about.

Bro, I sincerely am sorry if I upset you, I didn't mean to at all. There are many things about the church that upset me, and others. And I truly hate the hell fire and brimstone crap that goes on. And the arrogance that men of faith seem to embrace is very upsetting. I was just trying to articulate my belief that incorporating cultural practices into faith is not neccesarily a strongarm tactic, or a manipulation, but rather an understanding of cultural differences, and a desire to not let them get in the way.

I am sorry that I caused you to stew over things.

if you want to talk personally you can email me at

the rev

Rev,is fear of God and Hell a worthy reason to convert?

By the way, Prof is great! He is extremely articulate and I don't have an issue with what he wrote. I wish I could articulate what I believe and why as well.

rooster, not to me it isn't

the rev

Wow, Rev, are you a chameleon?

reverend john, bambam### (sp) and now GODZILLA? Each one with a different color?

Are the passwords the same? ... LOL...

Sorry, rev, I could not resist. :-)

I didn't mean stew in a bad way.

It's rare a post on the OG motivates me to think about it for an entire day and then post a rebuttal the next.

My wife, and my friend Godzilla all post from this computer, sometimes I forget to logout, and log back in with my own handle. Sorry for the confusion.

Good Lou, I would hate to make you sit around steaming, it happens to me from posts here, and it sucks.

the rev

Rev, I didn't say I agreed with him ;-) I just like his ability to articulate his position and his spirit. He seems to be honest and consistent in his skeptism. I can respect that as opposed to cussing at me and calling me a liar and throwing out a few cut and pastes from the local anti Christian website.

rooster: Rev,is fear of God and Hell a worthy reason to convert?

me: rooster, not to me it isn't

I guess this is the only way you understand things :)

I like and respect prof a lot myself

the rev

Rev: I guess this is the only way you understand things :)

me: :-) well...not necessarily. I tend to be much more "brutal" online then in person. The forum provides a forum for ideas to be debated, challenged, etc. while the interpersonal relationships of face to face conversation require other sensitivities. I really don't beat people up with the bible day to day nor club 'em with fire and brimstone. In fact, I often feel like I'm "too nice" and let to much go by w/out making an impactful witness. I also don't find people to be as abusive or personal with me in person. Respect seems a bit easier to garnish outside of the forum universe. Merry Christmas

No, I meant the way you do the discussion me you stuff.

I was just being funny. You asked a question, and then thought my answer was to another post, I was just clarifying what my answer was. I got no problems with you.

the rev

ah, cool...I'm a bit dense sometimes...I see now...:-)