Attn: Bitters- Rogue Questions

Hi Bitters,

I have an alt rogue Im really enjoying and if you ever have time can you give me a run-down on the class. What are some basic strats and goals for rogues. The essence of a well played rogue? etc.

Also at 50 what is a good spec (mut) I just got 2 Boa daggers. Main hand is 1.80 speed. OH is 1.60 speed. What poisons for them. Glyphs for this?

I know this is asking alot, but maybe bit by bit you can add. Im sure ill have more questions.

Thanks alot,

Edit: The Main hand dagger is actually 1.70. OF is 1.50

<br /><br />Also what rotation should I be using for the lvl 50 mut build. <br /><br />ty

General PVP tips (look at if you want the simple pve things), if you have any specific questions let me know:

-Level up mutilate, its lots of damage and combo point generation

-With a mutilate/envenom build you should wield 1.8 speed MH dagger (with wound poison) and 1.4 speed OH dagger (with deadly poison)(note; if you only have a 1.8 speed off hand dagger, put wound on that and mainhand deadly)
-With a mutilate/evis build, use double wound poison and two 1.8 speed daggers
-Look at my armory for spec/gems/enchants/glyphs (basically 5% hit then max attack power).
-In envenom spec the "swing" or "flex" talents are focused attacks, find weakness and deadened nerves (and 1 point of improved poisons), you can take 2/3 of any of the 3 and 5/5 improved poisons, or 3/3 and 4/5 imp poison
-Glyphs: mutilate, vigor, preparation, tricks of the trade, sprint are all good

Arena Tips:
-Land your sap. Sprinting over can help.
-When you want to burst a guy, load up with 5 CP points, (if envenom have 5 stacks of deadly if you can), then pool your energy bar till near full. this lets you envenom, mutilate, envenom, mutilate, envenom within a few gcd's (follow the same rule here of envenom @ 4/5 cp and mutilate and 3 or less). This also goes for when fighting heals alone, sets them back on heals.
*Bonus points for tricks-ing your partner before you both burst
-You will die in a full stun, kidney shot will kill you but blind will not, choose according to the situation on which you trinket.

General PVP Tips:
-Attack from behind whenever you can, your attacks cannot be dodged/parried when landed from behind the target
-Open with cheapshot on almost everything except mages (use garrote)
-You can vanish-immune spells. It takes timing, but for example, if you vanish at the correct time as someone casts (for example) deathcoil, your vanish will break and the deathcoil will read "immune" on you, so you don't get deathcoiled.
-Only "rotation" (which dont really exist in pvp) is to mutilate when you are at 3 or less combo points and evis/envenom @ 4/5 combo points.
-Use slice and dice in arena when you are switching targets (to clear combo points)
-Rupture sucks in arena, only use it to stop rogues from restealthing
-In a priest duel, you can sap off their power word: shield by landing your first sap JUST AS weakened soul debuff wears off. sap another 2 times, then open with cheapshot into kidney shot.
-Your cooldowns keep you alive. Don't feel bad about using them and don't listen to idiots who laugh that you're using cooldowns a lot. A rogue will die very quickly without the use of their cooldowns. With that in mind, good cooldown management is very important, use them (in arena) when you need them to keep you alive.

also, expose armor is useless as envenom build, i dont even have it bound any more. feint is good when you are getting bladestormed (it reduces aoe damage by 50%).

two useful macros:

#showtooltip sap
/cast sap

mash this sap macro when you are looking for another stealthed rogue

#showtooltip vanish
/cast vanish

will stop your auto attack when u cast vanish, making it SLIGHTLY more reliable by not having your white hits break your vanish due to lag

No you don't

That is awesome man greatly appreciated. Im guessing rogues become a lot better at 66 with Cloak because now locks and priest just dot me and kite me and fuck me real good.

Also now im combat and I go Sin, SnD, Sin, Sin Sin, Sin EVis.

I guess ill got Mut /envenom since thats the daggers I have. Do I now start with Mut, then SnD, Mut , mut mut, mut, Envenom? Just wondering about my SnD management.

Also with no crippling (which I use now) how doe I get the slowed down effect on victims.

Also I notice lot of rogues opening with sap which i never do. I sneak up an open with Cheap shot, then let lose. Why open with sap? I just used it when I saw 2 or more people/mobs.

oh and armory link please


Steve W -  i miss ganking people with my rogue.

trust me. its all nostalgia. people don't gank in wow anymore anyway. they sit in Dalaran or some other city and queue for stuff. the WoW you loved is dead.

As posted above, I would only SnD in pvp when I am switching targets (and the target I am leaving still has combo points on it).

The mut/envenom spec is superior to the mut/evis spec with any daggers. Read above how to use poisons depending on your dagger offhand speed.

With envenom spec, you take deadly brew which procs cripping for free whenever you proc wound poison, so there is your crippling.

You won't land a cheapshot on another stealthed rogue, sap having nearly double the range of cheapshot (with sap talents) makes it the safer knocks them out of stealth, allowing you to cheap shot them safely.

Sap is used in 1v1 openers to set up a safe opener. For example, a priest or mage might be spamming AOE to knock you out of stealth. Its possible to not be hit by the AOE and sap them, allowing for a safe cheap shot or safe garrote.

 Bitters are you going to try out Sub pvp after the patch and improvements? I had read the numbers are closer to Assn than ever before.

In pve I missed out on my  neckpiece to push my gear higher for the 3rd time now because I either alt tab or go take a piss... damn trash epix :(

Bitters, quick question for you.

So with the new pvp envenom build you can't use the old method of cs/ks then blind when they trinket ks, restealth and either sap or re-open with cs? because your dot with deadly poison breaks the blind. Isn't that losing a lot of cc that rogues need and are known for? Doesn't it make switching cc targets hard if deadly is stacked on the new cc target?

I've been playing my rogue lately and have seen other rogues running around with deadly all the time and can't make sense of giving up the cc/blind for it?

sap has a farther reach...awesome that makes so much sense now.

thanks again

Sorry to be a noob on rogue, so in PVE lets say with the mut spec you dont use sns?

You just mut until 5cp then envenom?

I was so used to using SnD with Combat and it was awesome but I guess with daggers you dont need SnD cause your already fast?

You still use snd with the mut/enven build. Envenom refreshes it with the proper mut build (cut to the chase) just skip out on rupture unless things have changed since i stopped playing

well put zane.

@leg: I usually play shadowdance mid-season in 2v2 for some fun/different play style anyway. I'll probably do that again. As far as how it compares to envenom spec, I still don't think it is close enough to use it in competitive arena (even after its buffs).

@mako, since pvp and specs are more tailored to arena than other pvp (like bg's or duels), foregoing the ability to cs, ks, blind is fine, since you are typically cc'ing an off-target while damaging a main target. Rogues common cc partners are mages and locks... locks can still land a fear while your deadly ticks away without breaking. mages glyph of polymorph removes any damage-over-time debuffs on the sheep, so it can still be safely polymorphed.

-in duels, vs. clothies its usually better to just equip wound/wound and play your spec like standard mut/evis, with plate its easier to set up a rushdown style with envenom (dont need blind versus a warrior for example).

Yeah that makes sense from an arena perspective. Against warriors I usually sprint/prep/sprint lmao.

Im getting owned in BGs. Help.

OK so all a priest or lock does is just DOT me and I fucking dead. For fun they can mind flay me to kill me quicker but thats not needed. Just a scrub lock or priest who can hit one button to DOT me up and walk away. Im dead. WTF?

Is there nothing I can do? I have no dispels?

Sounds like your the scrub haha