Attn: Buttfloppers!! re: Takedowns/Throws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zujHRNJ7EY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKQWwalEXOY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2RGY7DAqIA


See! They're easy...even chicks can do it.

What's your excuse? Buttflopping is a 'neutral' position wrought with sweep/submission potential? LOL

Lol.
A. That's awesome.
B. Im sitting guard if I wrestle her

Seriously though... If I know I am outclassed on take downs it would be foolish for me to stand with them. The point is to win... Not hold on to some odd idea that buttflopping is lame or Gay or whatever.

Yeah, this was meant in jest. Just stumbled onto the clips the other day and was impressed by her technique so I figured I'd manufacture a reason to post them.

She ain't exactly hard to look at, either. ;)

Cool... Hey mgt... Just saw your post on the other thread and had to ask... Do you really wear a white belt after ten years training?

Absolutely!

Having started bjj on judo mats, and being one who continues to crosstrain with virtually anyone I can, especially sambists and wrestlers, I realized a long time ago that I am NOT defined by my rank. Meaning, I tap and get tapped by the whole rainbow of belt colors and abilities, even people who've only ever thought about belts in the utilitarian/fashion sense(ie: they do a good job holding pants up, and look nice, too), so what does it matter what color belt I wear except to preserve somekind of weird belt-blindness and heirarchy I want nothing to do with anyways? So, one day I just decided to respectfully stop accepting promotions and instead take a Kano-like approach to things by putting my whitebelt back on(and no, I won't tell you what color my belts were beforehand) in tribute to his posthumous award of 12th dan(a big, double-wide whitebelt), signifying he'd come full circle and was again, as he'd always been, a student.

Bascially, my whitebelt means I value knowledge and the process of learning it more than my ego, rank, or reputation(on the mat).


edit: emphasizing a word using incorrect grammar. how does that work? lol

I love every thing you just said and in fact had a similar discussion just tonight... However it worries me about wearing a white belt as it seems to be a sort of sandbagging and also rolling/ competing under false pretences. I can't see anything wrong with representing your true level and also having the same attitude. I feel like you don't wear your belt for your sake but for others. Thoughts?

I don't compete in tournaments anymore, so it really doesn't bother me. I roll with everyone and never ask about or even look at their belts unless I end up chewing on them underneath north-south or something. ;)

However, if I were to ever compete again(and I've given it some thought recently) I'd certainly compete in the most appropriate division, even erring on stepping up to a harder division if there's any doubt. Won't change the fact that I will wear my whitebelt while doing so. Ride or die, ya heard!

Jessy30 - I feel like you don't wear your belt for your sake but for others. Thoughts?


Yes and no. Ranks are recognition of effort and accomplishment(knowledge/skill) and that should certainly be acknowledged and respected. But at the same time, even in these discussions, people refer to belts like they're more than they are. Like the belt is more important than the person wearing it. And that I don't agree with because it feeds the ego and becomes a crutch.

I buttflop and buttscoot in tournaments all the time. As for it being a neutral position, not really. I feel like I'm at an advantage that way. And if I play the takedowns game then I feel like I'm at a disadvantage. I could pull guard instead but I risk getting taken down and being down 2 pts. Instead I chose to sit my ass down at the beginning of the match (and every match so far) because I'm confident in my ability to prevent the guard pass and work my guard game.

TheBulgarianAssassin - As for it being a neutral position, not really. I feel like I'm at an advantage that way.



LOL. Wat?


TheBulgarianAssassin - Guard is a neutral position in BJJ. There are a lot of good submission opportunities as long as you don't get passed.


^Liar! Liar! ;)

Well...i agree...bjj as with any endeavour should be about personal growth... About the journey and not the belt. This is why tmas got so watered down. Everyone in our society is so bent on getting to the destination that it doesn't even matter nor do they recognize the destination when they get there. Most people do not even realize what they are in bjj for. They think it is a black belt. But surely that is not the end! they are willing to get to what they see as their destination even if it means they shortcutted. So you got your blackbelt? I know many tma black belts who are a joke as a black belt. Who couldn't defend themselves against the average thug. And it was because they took every short cut they could. Ugh. I could go on and on. But as long as the focus is on improving yourself then you are doing OK. Remember, a belt does not mean that you are improved. The next time you get a promotion ask yourself, am I better than I was yesterday? does this belt make me better? its an easy regress from there to see that the belts have not made you better and thus do not mean shit. You are what makes you better.

Ultimately wrestling has no purpose.

Jessy30 - Well...i agree...bjj as with any endeavour should be about personal growth... About the journey and not the belt. This is why tmas got so watered down. Everyone in our society is so bent on getting to the destination that it doesn't even matter nor do they recognize the destination when they get there. Most people do not even realize what they are in bjj for. They think it is a black belt. But surely that is not the end! they are willing to get to what they see as their destination even if it means they shortcutted. So you got your blackbelt? I know many tma black belts who are a joke as a black belt. Who couldn't defend themselves against the average thug. And it was because they took every short cut they could. Ugh. I could go on and on. But as long as the focus is on improving yourself then you are doing OK. Remember, a belt does not mean that you are improved. The next time you get a promotion ask yourself, am I better than I was yesterday? does this belt make me better? its an easy regress from there to see that the belts have not made you better and thus do not mean shit. You are what makes you better.


To me there's just too much reverence for belts, period. Like when a visitor comes to your gym. You'll shoot the shit beforehand, but the second he reaches into his bag for his uniform and you see his belt your perception of him skews. If he's a lower belt than you you're likely to dismiss him. If he's a blackbelt you're most likely in awe. Yet, worst of all, if he's the same belt as you you're likely to compare yourself to/against him instead of focusing on YOUR OWN JOURNEY!! like you should.

I also look at it from the judo and wrestling perspective. In wrestling there's no belt/rank structure whatsoever, and in judo at the senior(adults) and world/olympic levels everyone is a blackbelt(ie: there's no colored belt world championships in judo) so the belt itself is really nothing more than a part of the required uniform, so in reality it could be any color(ie: matching whatever color the gi is; white or blue) and it would make no difference whatsoever.

I like that in judo when you talk about the best competitors rank NEVER comes up because the value is placed on what a person knows, or how good they are/were as a competitor in whatever area is being discussed(ie: Yamashita's osoto-gari or Kashiwazaki's newaza). What's more is that unlike bjj and so many other martial arts, a blackbelt in judo is truly looked at as the point where a person begins to learn judo. Before then you're simply born into judo(ie: whitebelt = birth) and the other kyu ranks are your adolescence...ie you're waiting to grow up to become a judoka. Again, that's why rank really never comes up in discussion and why there aren't green and orange belt world championships for adults like there is in bjj. It'd be a meaningless waste of time.

Jessy30 - Ultimately wrestling has no purpose.


GTFO of my thread! Cultist!!


Regardless...

For anyone opposed to the gayness that is buttflopping and who would like to see/learn more about the depth, 'technique', and beauty of takedowns and throws of the nogi(wrestling) variety, I submit Soviet era Russians!!

Freestyle

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/628/

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/627/

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/626/

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/625/

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/624/

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/623/

http://video.yandex.ru/users/arunas1971/view/622/



Greco Roman

http://tv.sportedu.ru/video/klassicheskaya-borba-broski-podvorotom

http://tv.sportedu.ru/video/klassicheskaya-borba-utrennie-trenirovki-spetsializirovannye-razminki-na-razlichnykh-etapakh-p

http://tv.sportedu.ru/video/borba-klassicheskaya-shvungi

http://tv.sportedu.ru/video/klassicheskaya-borba-spetsialnaya-skorostno-silovaya-podgotovka

http://tv.sportedu.ru/video/klassicheskaya-borba-chempionat-mira-1983g

2009 Russian Nationals

Simply amazing stuff

http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/235160/195974

^Yeah, that clip is something else. I really liked the 2008 highlights as well.

http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234003/67280-2008-russian-nationals-highlights



This clip from SBGI hits on a lot of my thoughts concerning belts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x7IiCTiogY

1:45 - 3:05; talks about timing and ego.

From 6:27 onward is some really good stuff re: hierarchies and the effects of rank/titles on a person's attitude. Chris Hautuer's(Machado blackbelt) comments in particular speak volumes on why I abandoned belts.

Missing Glove Tape - 
TheBulgarianAssassin - As for it being a neutral position, not really. I feel like I'm at an advantage that way.



LOL. Wat?


TheBulgarianAssassin - Guard is a neutral position in BJJ. There are a lot of good submission opportunities as long as you don't get passed.


^Liar! Liar! ;)


Guard is neutral in BJJ theoretically. But I feel if I have the guy in my guard, I'm at a huge advantage because that's where I'm good. Make sense?

TheBulgarianAssassin - 
Missing Glove Tape - 
TheBulgarianAssassin - As for it being a neutral position, not really. I feel like I'm at an advantage that way.



LOL. Wat?


TheBulgarianAssassin - Guard is a neutral position in BJJ. There are a lot of good submission opportunities as long as you don't get passed.


^Liar! Liar! ;)


Guard is neutral in BJJ theoretically. But I feel if I have the guy in my guard, I'm at a huge advantage because that's where I'm good. Make sense?


Yes, but your advantage(skill/attributes) does not negate it being an inherently defensive position.

Helio's philosophy "survive first, then win"... You get taken down, you assume guard to defend yourself. Neutral denotes equality, as in the ability to scramble on the feet or from your knees. With guard, even as skilled as people are, it's pretty easy to get controlled because you're less mobile. Even without GNP and/or guy with no real skills, but a solid base(or a distinct weight advantage) can stall/neutralize even a highly skilled guard player by simply putting their head down and putting the bear-hug death lock on them.

Mocrates - 2009 Russian Nationals



Simply amazing stuff



http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/235160/195974


Def some cool stuff there - great vid.  I wish I would have wrestled as a kid and enjoy learning takedowns and throws now, but I def still love BJJ for ground work.

 p.s.  Our gi instructor is an old Rickson guy and we are a Renzo affiliate.   We actually are strongly discouraged from pulling guard.