ATTN: HEANGKOING

Alright man I need some help on setting up a work out utilizing the powerclean and some other basic Oly type lifts.

I work on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week and I may only be off work 8 hours at time before I have to go back to work so I've adopted the whole "less is more" training philosphy.

I do short intense work outs either at the gym, in my motel room (when I'm away from home) or at home.

I'm doing fairly well in fighting the whole mentality that I have to do more and more weight on the power cleans and hang cleans since my form sucks and I don't want to end up in a messy pile on the gym floor.

I did my first semi serious work out the other day with hang cleans as the main exercise.

I started with 95lbs for 10 reps, 135 lbs for 2 sets of 5, and then I jumped to 185 lbs for 20 singles.

I did 205 for 1 rep and I tried for a second single but I got scared of it and my form turned into something that'd you see a monkey on crack attempt so I called it a day and did some chins.

Alright enough rambling.

I'm looking for 2 to 3 weight training work outs a week and 2 to 3 bodyweight work outs to supplement my program.

I'm not interested in getting heavily into Oly lifting this late in life but I'd like to use the more basic lifts to supplement my training in my goal to train to be more athletic versus just getting bigger.

So hook me up man how many days a week should I clean and what kind of set/rep scheme do you recommend.

I'd do Cleans and Snatch alternating sessions.  One one session and then the other the next.

On the clean days you can do Snatch Pulls after that session.  Then Back squats.

Snatch then do Clean Pulls.  Front squats.

Form is key to everything.  Straight back is very important.

I train 3x a week to OL.  That is enough for me without killing my life.  You could do that or mix it up to 5 or 7x a week if you wanted to.

Your doing loads of reps man.  I'd like to see a hang clean at 185lbs for singles for 20!  Thats pretty dam good man.

If you want more weights you will have to lift less.  Your doing too much volume.

Clean and Jerk = 2 reps per set
Snatch = 3 reps per set

Without the Jerk I'd say do 5-6 Cleans with good form.  I wouldn't do 10 or 15 unless you had solid form.  Then even the best goes to crap after 10reps. 

Clean Pulls are great,
Hang Cleans are also great even though I haven't done them in ages.

Jerks are great.  Help you get fast.  I'd defiantely do this exercise.  Don't have to split so just do a Power Clean.  Basically a more explosive version of a Push Press.

Conditioning exercies i'd do on 6reps x 4 OR 5 SETS.

Technicals Exercises 3 reps (2 for clean and jerks)

Thats a good basis for anything.

Make sure your back and ab's are strong enough so do hypers and then add weights when your strong enough behind your head.  Incline sit ups are great. Then add weights once your back can take it.

Koing

Thanks much man.

I'll have to work on the Snatch.

I don't have quite the ankle flexibility or the confidence to drop under a load yet.

No problems.

Well just do it with the 45lbs bar or see if they have a smaller bar.  Use that at say 20lbs and work on it.

I've fallen on my ass many times with just a 45lbs bar before.  EVERYONE does when they are learning.  Even now every so often I still fail one and have to bail out and fall on my ass.  Just goes to show there is such a thin line between the balance in the Snatch.

The bar will be enough practice.  Work up on it.  Then you will have the flexibility and confident to do better.

I had a lifter Snatch 62.5kg ~ 137.5lbs at 14y/o.  He only weighs 61kg also.  It is a MILE STONE to get a bodyweight Snatch in OL.  So he is of couse very happy.  Now he can call him self an OL :).  There was this unwritten rule saying you couldn't call yourself one until you could Snatch your own bodyweight :D.  I was sure dam happy when I nailed mine :D

Just work your way up and you can lift a lot in a few months.

Koing

ttt

A'ight HK here goes todays work out.

Now I'm not going very far down to catch the bar when I clean so I don't know if this is a power clean or what but anyway.

All weight is in lbs.

Warm up
Clean and Jerks: 6 sets of 2 with 185
Snatch Pulls: 6 sets of 5 with 135
Squats: 6 sets of 5 with 225
Stiff Legged Deadlifts: 6 sets of 5 with 185
Dips: 6 sets of 5 with a 45
Inclined sit ups: 5 sets of 10 with a 25

I can squat fairly deep but when I tried an overhead squat to try and gauge how high I need to pull for the Snatch pull I couldn't get low enough or stay stable enough to do the lift so I figure I'm going to be doing more of a Power Snatch next work out.

I'm pretty intense and I stay pretty focused but the level of focus needed to pull the damned clean and jerk with no more weight than I'm using is friggin amazing.

I've got a little chant prior to pulling the weight off the ground that goes "calves and shrugs" and I say it over and over.

hehe

Seems to help.

I was sweating my ass off when I got done with the clean and jerks and my thumbs are killing me from using the hook grip but they are better this week and than last.

Oh and for the record I'm about 5'8" and weigh just under 200 lbs.

I'm loving this work out.

Now I've just got to figure out how to schedule in some HIIT training and some sandbag work.

Any more tips?

Oh and the Snatch pull is a high pull with a wider than shoulder width grip right?

Hey and Wiggy I'd appreciate some info from you to man if you've got anything you'd like to add.

Yes I get knackered from my OL sessions also.  They knacker you out. 

It is alright to take 2.5mins or 3 mins per set rest as focus is on power and not endurance.

Try and go all the way down to catch it.  Really deep.  Good for speed and flexibility and agility imo.  Makes you fast having to get under fast.  Thats what I tell everyone.  Go with full clean and not power but thats just my opinion on it.  Anyone with a good full clean and have a good power clean.  Good full clean no way translate to a good full clean.  You haven't learnt to go down fast to catch the bar.  Also it adds in a front squat before the Jerk. :D

How deep is fairly deep?  Sit rock bottom and get someone to get a pic for you or if you can a video.

You have to be able to sit ROCK BOTTOM for a good Snatch and Clean.

Snatch is very technically bounded.  Got to sit in a deep squat and have good shoulder mobility to actually stay like that.  Just practice with the bar alone.  You get the range quicker.  Just drop  under the bar in to a deep squat and stay like so for a bit.  Move around a bit, move the bar in to different positions VERY SLIGHTLY then you feel where you DON'T have balance and WHERE YOU DO have the balance.  Very important.  I remember my coach telling me this.  I found it great for finding where my sweet spot is.

"I'm pretty intense and I stay pretty focused but the level of focus needed to pull the damned clean and jerk with no more weight than I'm using is friggin amazing."

What do you mean by this?  You want to lift more stay at this weight and work on technique?

Well bump the weight up a bit on the 3rd or 4th set.  See how you handle it.  My coach says I can go higher then what I am scheduled to train at if I am feeling good and the lifts are sucessful.  Somedays you will find you are unstopable! 

Yeah use hook grip.   Your thumb isn't conditioned to do so yet.  but they will be.  I remembered when I transisitoned over to hook grip a about 18 months ago.  First few months were a bitch as could lift alright with normal grip (rock climber = good grip) so hook was a mofo.

Snatch is where your grip is wide.  The OL bar should have some *outer guide* rings for your Snatch Grip.  Depending on how tall you are you should adjust.  My bro who is 5"5 uses exactly on them.  Thumbs on the outside of them.  I'm 5"10 and have about an inch on either side.

Snatch Pull : When they mean high pull they don't mean to literally pull the bar with your arms.  But to get the motion down that you bend your knees properly and to SHRUG like no tomorrow and to extend on to toes and reach for the sky.  That is what they mean.  You want to finish on your toes and GO FORWARDS almost as you go so high up.  If you DO GO FORWARDS it is *ok* to do so.

Do all your training on other days off from OL.  Or you could try it in the morning and OL later.  Or OL in the morning and your HIIT and sandbag work later.

Koing

"'I'm pretty intense and I stay pretty focused but the level of focus needed to pull the damned clean and jerk with no more weight than I'm using is friggin amazing.'

What do you mean by this? You want to lift more stay at this weight and work on technique?"

What I was talking about is how if you let your concentration slip just a bit and you lose the lift.

And as far as the clean pulls and snatch pools go I'm focusing on the explosion and shrug over just pulling with my arms.

Thanks again man.

"What I was talking about is how if you let your concentration slip just a bit and you lose the lift."

OH.  Of course man.  A small dip in your chest and that makes your bum sticks out and the Jerk MUCH harder to do, and you either just get it or fail it.  Clean for me is automatic enough and I can't fail it :D  But the Jerk I have to work on.

Yup that is how your Pulls sh ould be.  Remember your arms are just hooks to hold the bar.  Do not try and pull and lift the bar up.  You willl go no where when the weights get past 250lbs+.  It is all in the extension of the body and the shrug.

Koing

Alright I sucked horribly at the Snatch.

If I'm not flexible enough to get under it I get scared of it and screw it up then.

I liked the work out.

It was tough but I kept my ego in check and I made a go at it.

Warm up
Snatch: 6x2 w/ 95 lbs
Clean Pulls: 6x5 w/ 135 lbs
Front Squats: 6x5 w/ 185 lbs
Chins: 6x5 no weight but I used a hook grip
Hanging Leg raises: 5x5

I know I can handle more weight on the Snatch but I just can't seem to get the confidence and the form down to get it up and lock it out.

So I'm going to stick with the ultra light weight and go up in minimal increments until I get my flexibility and confidence where I think it needs to be.

Plus I hit myself in the damned top of the head when I missed a lift early on.

Very taxing work out.

Just the Snatches alone with warm up and the mental and physical struggle wore me out to no end.

Yup it is very taxing to go through that.  I go through it 3x a week and have done so for the best part of 2 and a half years! 

Your using TOO MUCH weight on the Snatch still.  You have no problems getting the weight up as it is LIGHT but when you try to get underneath it is HEAVY still.  And NOT A POSITION you are use to.

I'd just start with the bar 45lbs and WORK THAT until you feel yourself being fast underneath it.  Then add in some 10lbs on each end so you have 65lbs TOTAL.  Work with that until you can get underneath it well and have the balance and technique down.  Once you have the basics it is a matter of getting stronger and faster. 

Your technique will not allow you to lift ANYMORE if it is sloppy.  I bet any money you are strong enough to Snatch at least 160lbs but you are not fast enough or confident enough to get under it. 

I don't think I've hit myself on the head with the bar but I've hit my chin when I jerked it once, and didn't have my head back.  NEVER again though.  It was a shock.

Use this to progress your Snatch: (Snatch width grip)
Start at Chest: Drop under and catch it:  Repeat for 4 sessions in a row:

Drop from Waist: Same as Start at chest but from wait with BENT ARMS:

Drop from Hips: Same as the last two but from the *different height* which is in the name of the exercise BUT WITH STRAIGHT
ARMS this one:

Bar movement pratice: One of the most important things in OL is learning to bring the bar from the ground in a nice straight line from the ground where the bar is stationary to your thighs for the 2nd knee bend.  Work this so your angle of hips and shoulders move *together* as much as possible.

Then Work from the ground up to a FULL SNATCH..  Always catch from the bottom.  You will learn to extend up propery on to the toes as you et use to it.  And as you do more Clean and Snatch Pulls.

You can also Snatch balances.  This is where you have the bar behind your neck in like a push behind neck but with Snatch grip.  NOW you DROP UNDER THE BAR and PUNCH with your arms out to lock.  Sit in a nice deep squat then come back up.  Repeat for 4 reps and 4 sets if not 5.  Start on light weights so your joints get use to it and more strengthen over time.  Then you can go at it.

Koing

Alright man I'll give em a run.

I refuse to give up after just the first work out anyway.

I'll try out your suggestions.

Hell I was powering up 135 but I knew my technique was f'd up so I cut back.

My biggest problem with just using the bar is it isn't heavy enough to "help" into some of the more confining positions.

I see Mule.

Have the bar then 10lbs on each side.  But you need to be comfortable with the bar going down fast and have your arms at a good distance and back.  When weight is on it is much more tough to do it properly.  But again just need to practice it.  See if you have any guys or colleges around that could help?  I'm sure they will be more then  happy to help a guy wanting to OL properly :D.

Those progressions are great.  I still do them as I warm up for my Snatch or Clean and Jerk.  Right after I do my dynamic warm ups I go through the progressions again.  Mainly for the Snatch and don't bother doing it with the Clean anymore.

I do about 2 or 3 from those various heights.  You should do 5 or 6 as I did when I didn't have it down.  After about 5 sessions it will start to feel natural :)

Thanks Xen for the TTT.

Koing

A'ight HK one more question and then we'll let this thread die.

Worked my way up to 215 lbs on the clean and jerk today.

I'm a little slow on the catch still but I'm getting under the bar and dropping to a full squat now on the catch.

My problem is I've got no leg drive on the jerk portion.

I locked out 215 but it was a push press and I'm a little pissed.

So what cha think?

My snatch pulls suck too but I'm doing too much weight and I got alot of work to do before I clean that up.

1)I'm a little slow on the catch still but I'm getting under the bar and dropping to a full squat now on the catch.

Speed you can work on.  Speed doesn't come instantly to those who aren't naturally very quick but you got to just keep practicing it.  REALLY pull yourself under the bar.  You will know know when you see some guys C&J 150kg+.  YOU GOT TO BE fast under that.  can't do that slowly.

My problem is I've got no leg drive on the jerk portion.

Well that is just work.  I feel shattered after 110kg Clean and then I got to Jerk the dam thing!  You just got to suck it up and go for it.  Show some agression and get PUMPED for the Jerk.  Just got to work through it. 

How are your squats?  Do any front squats?  Your 3RM is a good indicator for your Clean and Jerk.  1 squat to get the bar up.  1 to get up from the bottom of the catch and 1 more squat for the Jerk.  This is all front squats of course.

I locked out 215 but it was a push press and I'm a little pissed.

So what cha think?

More squats and maybe get some 6reps x 5 sets volume in.  Will give you great training stamina.

My snatch pulls suck too but I'm doing too much weight and I got alot of work to do before I clean that up.

Work on a weight you can get to the bottom of your chest.  Just work on the speed and the pull aspect of it.  Really shrug and extend on to your toes.

I hit 220lbs in training also.  Was alright.  Clean good but the Jerk was fast but I didn't bend my back leg enough.

Jerk:
Make sure you are stepping forwards and that your back leg is bent enough.  Otherwise you are leaning too far forwards or backwards.  When your trunk is straight down and up, you maximise ALL of your drive.  Also DON'T dip too low.  Got to be FAST off the bottom of the dip.  Nice extension on to your toes and you should go forwards naturally then split. 

Back foot down FASTER  then the front foot.

My Jerk is a bit sketchy and the only thing holding back my Clean and Jerk.  I've trained 3x a week on my Clean and Jerk for the past 2 weeks and my Jerk is more consistent now.  Hope I get a new PB in the next comp:D

Again just work on the technique.

Clean and Jerk for 2 reps is good.  DON'T rest between the reps.  Just set yourself up again and go do it.  It is HARD AS NAILS but it will help to produce a good 1RM.  This can be done from 80-95%!

Hope it helps and just keep at the technique.   You will improve.

Koing

Thanks man.

I appreciate your help.

I was so damned happy just to make a good full clean today that it didn't bother me too much that my jerk sucked.

I'm not real sure what my front squat is right now but I think it's around 275 or 315 but that'd be on a good day.

I'm pulling high enough on the snatch pull but I'm still afraid to get under it.

I'm going to work on your progressions that you recommended and then get back after the snatch in a few weeks.

Well taht 315lb front squat is better then mine!  How deep is it too though?  Full clean depth?  Mines at 275lbs at last test which was a while ago to rock bottom.  Definately have to get my front squats up.

Will go on a russian squatting routine after next comp hopefully.

Koing

What's a Russian Squatting routine?

I've squatted 315 front squat but it wasn't as low as I'm going now.

Going to take some time to get back up around 315 going rock bottom.

The Russian Squatting Routine is a routine that works off a 1RM and splits it down 3 sessions a week in which you squat.  It has built in progressions and recovery weeks for you.

I went on it after a while of OL.  I put a lot of kg's to my squat.  It lasts for 6 or 9 weeks  I can't remember.  When I know the exact thing off my coach I'll post it up here.  Best squat routine that added kg to low depth for me.  Hope I get the same gains again :D

I would assume I could squat much more to parallel or a bit lower or higher.  But to rock buttom with a Clean grip it is tough.

315lbs to rock bottom is pretty awesome!  I've done 242lbs x 4reps x 4 sets before.  That was cool.

Koing