Attn: LeftBench

Hey. Following on from the other thread, why do you (or anyone else) find Smith machines unsafe?

The following brief article is based around the motion of a squat, stating that the bar will move in a straight line whereas the line should infact arc, resulting in lower pain problems.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_2_20/ai_112358595

Is this the same/similar to your thoughts?

cdc: those are my exact thoughts. That article pretty much sums up my thoughts on smith machine training.

Working in a gym for about 5 years now and its incredible watching people squat on the smith machine. I've seen some TERRIBLE and extremely dangerous uses of form on that thing. Its quite scary when someone leans against the bar, walks their feet out 3-4 feet, and starts squatting. They have no base whatsoever and are trying to squat... scary. LOL

If you disagree with the notion that the smith machine is potentially dangerous, I'd be very interested in hearing why.

Also, even though its not "dangerous", I hate how the smith machine stabilizes the weight for you. If I'm going to squat 300 pounds, I want to be able to truly squat that weight myself, not only be able to push that weight up with the help of a machine. That's just another reason why I don't like the smith machine ;)

P.S. Thank you for making a civil thread asking my thoughts. I saw "attn:leftbench" and was originally scared, lol.

I'm self-admittedly a novice to weight training so I'm constantly learning. This forum is perfect for me because of the advice and experience avaiable. Since there are always (at least) two sides to an argument, I wanted to know and understand your thoughts and benefit from your experience before making my own opinion. So thanks for sharing.

Currently I only use the Smith machine when I bench press and cannot get a spotter. Otherwise I wouldn't use it and use a rack for the squats.

Whilst I haven't seen any injuries caused by the Smith machine, I understand your (and the article's) theory and agree with it. I also agree with your point about stability, and in theory believe that it reduces the use of smaller, stablising muscles, which I have seen cause injury eg a friend injured his rotator cuff(s) from performing shoulder presses and push presses in a straight line. His shoulders were far stronger than his rotator cuff and he caused a slight tear (not exactly sure what). After expensive physiotherapy he learnt to rotate the DBs when performing the shoulder press to strengthen the rotator cuff.

When you say "I've seen some TERRIBLE and extremely dangerous uses of form on that thing", do you think that it is possible to learn proper form (ie if taught correctly) or that the Smith machine is so restrictive in its movement to always prevent the necessary movement and form (no matter who uses it)?

PS: Sorry for scaring you and thanks for your time.

cdc: Glad to hear you aren't using it for squats :)

In regards to using it for the bench press, it is still removing the stabilizer muscles. One tip to you from someone who has worked at a gym for a long time is to take advantage of the workers as spotters. Even if no other gym members are around to give you a spot, go grab one of the workers. Its their job to spot you... if they are dicks about it, then they are stupid because someone could potentially get injured at their club. I spot people all day when I'm working and its all good. I'd try my hardest to use the regular bench press instead of the smith machine. But it sounds like you only use the smith machine in dire circumstances. Maybe if there is absolutely no spotter around whatsoever, you can switch to dumbbell bench presses.. then you can still go heavy but dump the dumbbells if need be and it won't require a spotter.

Sorry I am ranting here, lol.

"do you think that it is possible to learn proper form (ie if taught correctly) or that the Smith machine is so restrictive in its movement to always prevent the necessary movement and form (no matter who uses it)?"

In my opinion, some people will have "better" form than others in regards to smith machine squats (some almost mimicking a true squat while others do that crazy shit), but yes I believe the smith machine is too restrictive in its movement to let people safely and correctly squat on it.

Its too bad more gyms wouldnt sell their smith machines and buy power racks. Then you'd have real safety (like some claim you get from the smith machine), with the ability to train the correct way, spotter or not. Even the gym I work at has no power rack, but at least I've got a squat rack thankfully.

My mistake...whenever I mentionned squat racks in my posts I meant power racks. There are two power racks and one Smith machine, no squat racks. I thought the two terms were interchangeable for the same piece of equipment. So I've been squatting in a power rack.

But there aren't many workers. The majority spend time in the "fitness room" when working. I've only seen two staff who regularly come into the "weights room" and that is purely to check people aren't being stupid. I don't think I've seen either of them give tips or pointers or correct people's form. But they are accessible in that I've asked many questions which they answer.

Thanks for the advice on the DB bench presses, I'll definitely bear it in mind next time I can't find a spotter.

I didn't mention...I have decided that even if proper form could be and is used on the Smith machine, the alledged benefits of 4% more than a free squat do not outweigh the danger of lower back problems and therefore it should not be used. Thanks for your help.

No problem, glad I swayed you over to my side of the fence. And you're very lucky to have power racks to train in!!!

I'm back again with a question...

I tried the DB bench press a few days ago. Doing 6 sets of 5 reps, as I would do with a BB, I couldn't lift the same weight. It was much harder and felt like a better test. Is this normal? Is it due to using more stabalising muscles (it was less controlled than a BB bench press) or was I having an off day?

You are correct about the stabilizing muscles. DB bench is usually harder weight wise for most people. My advice is to switch it up between the DB and the BB. :)

Ok. Thanks for your help.

"You are correct about the stabilizing muscles. DB bench is usually harder weight wise for most people. My advice is to switch it up between the DB and the BB. :)"

Why switch up? Why not stick to just DB? Whats the benefit of the Barbell?

Personally I don't think regular Barbell bench presses are even needed, but I enjoy them so I do them.

Ok cool. All I have is a set of powerblocks and thats how I do most of my stuff. I thought maybe I was missing out on something. How ya been bro?