attn:Marc Scott

Marc -

Since you never responded to my questions in the fang choke thread, I'd like to ask you a few questions

Who did you study KDL with? I asked Guro Jun if he knew you and he said he never heard of you.

You said you had FMa studied for 16 years, but on your forum, you said you werent interested in FMA at all until you met Ray.

That sounds like you never trained until you met him.

can you clear up the confusion for me?



Marc Scott

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Respect is more than a word!

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            <font size="2"><b>Re: Fencing champion my ass</b></font><br>
            <font size="1">« <b>Reply #23 on:</b> Apr 25<sup>th</sup>, 2004, 11:23am »</font></td>

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        Tom Caprio, <br>  <br>

Tom has it occured to you that the vast majority of people who support
Ray are professional fighters, and people who use their training in a
day-to-day environment?

You seem to infer something as
to Ray's skills in reference to Ricketts. The truth of the matter is
Ray is sparring against BJJ Black Belts, Professional MMA Fighters,
Thai boxers, and other fighters, and we all choose to train with Ray.

Before I met Ray I was absolutely not interested at all in the FMA, as
were many of the people on this board yet Ray has done more to bring
modern fighters and western martial artists into the FMA community than
anyone I know.

You said:


there was a problem, fight. Instead of typing away, just do it the old
way guys... "Magharapan Kayo". For the people who can't understand
tagalog, I will translate. "You face each other." No rules and no more

You want people to fight because someone didn't like a video series and didn't recommend it, so what, stop being a child.

Edited for edification:

1) Obviously I have not been exposed to all FMA so I speak only about what I have seen. When I say FMA I refer to what I have experienced, or had other show me, I can't pretend to have seen it all.

Sorry I didn't even notice your poston the other thread until today.

If you want to call me a liar, call me a liar if you want to insinuate go do it somewhere else.

I started training in FMA in 1989 when I was fifteen or so under a Grant Richardson, who is from Ontario, he trained under KDL, so that is why I named that style as it was my first exposure to stick.

As for your question you are right I gave up on FMA as I think most of it is poorly trained and not very well executed as well most people are so caught up in lineages and looking good that they don't bother becoming combat effective. I was also tired of the lies and bullshit in FMA, the myths and fables (which granted permeate almost all martial arts).

A lot of the crap was not in the techniques but the way they were trained, swinging a stick is swinging a stick, the technique itself is valid. All the crap that goes along with it and the methods used to train it are not the most useful way to train (that includes compound trapping, hubud, tapi-tapi drills, sumbrada) all that is basically two man kata with sticks.

I don't hold most FMA in high regards that is true, Ray is the best I have seen at getting others to a high skill level quickly and that is what impressed me the most he also was the first honest FMA instructor I had met who had enough belief in what he did to say when something was crap irregardless of who taught.

It was refreshing candor that is missing from a lot of martial artists.


calm down - I was never calling you a liar - if I was, I would have said - "you're full of shit, guro told me you never trained and you even admit it on your forum"

on the contrary, I asked Guro Jun if he knew you, he said no, so I asked who you trained under - I never said you didnt train at all.

Also, by your post, "Before I met Ray I was absolutely not interested at all in the FMA"
it sounds to me like you were NEVER interested in FMA EVER. It seemed contrary to what you had said about all the years of training, so I just askd for clarification.

Thanks for your reply


Oh yeah I also did TKD when I was eight at the YMCA, want me to get you the number of the guy I trained with?

Oh shit I almost forgot I did Judo too when I was nine at the Dovercourt Recreational Centre in Ottawa, though I can't remember the sensei's name, he was some brown belt who spoke French, give them a call they may remember him.


The statement:

"Before I met Ray I was absolutely not interested at all in the FMA"

Is absolutely true, I had given up hope of finding good FMA, since I had spent my time getting really good at Hubud, and counter for counter instead fighting.

I have great respect for the Filipino arts, I just think how they are taught here (from my experience) is so removed from the way they were/are taught when it really was a skill that may be used in combat, to almost make them an insult to FMA in general.


you really need to take a chill pill.

why are you geting so defensive?

i think i have already made my intent clear.

since i'm friends with guro jun, i wanted to hear his side of why you thought his system sucked. I'm sure if I said i trained FFS and it was total bullshit, you'd give Ray a call and find out what the deal with me was -

as far as the other thing - dude, it's your words, not mind - saying you had ABSOLUTLY NO INTEREST IN FMA means to me that you had no interest in learning it ever - purhaps you should have choosen your words more carefully when you posted it. then I wouldnt have had and questions about what you meant to say - which is why i asked

Well you asked a question I clarified.

I don't have to word what I say more carefully, you need to read things in context and understand where they are coming from.

If you had read what I said instead of picking and choosing maybe you would have had a better understanding.


I read the entire thread. Hell, thats why I posted YOUR entire post.

Let's take the rest of your statement:

Before I met Ray I was absolutely not interested at all in the FMA as were many of the people on this board...

so be reading EVERYTHING you wrote, I guess I should NOT assume everyone one the board is new to FMA because of RAY, but rather, like you EVERYONE on the board has trained extensively in many other systems of FMA, totally gave up on FMA and had ABSOLUTLEY NO INTEREST IN FMA AT ALL until they met Ray.

Yea, thats the logical conclusion to be drawn from your ENTIRE post.

How am I picking and choosing snippets? I dont see why your panties are in a bunch. This is the whole problem with the net - things are very easily misunderstood -

I still stand by your post sounds like you never were interested in training FMA ever until you met Ray, JUST LIKE MANY OTHERS ON THE BOARD.

Just because you know what your meaning is doesnt mean the rest of the world does -

and if you really "clarified" my question, then you wouldnt be all piss-ie and have to post the rest of the shit you did -

I think thou doth protest to loudly -

I cant make it any clearer that I'm asking honest questions and not trying to troll you


Guro Jun has no Idea who Grant Richardson is. He obviously scammed you.

Besides himself, the only two people authorized to teach KDL are Rommel, his top guy, and Joey, his brother-in-law


how did the training/work with Borden go?

Did the material make sense after working with Borden?

Later brother.

I'm a little confused (what else is new?)

The only Borden I know is a guy who is a "fistfire" instructor (his name is Borden Boren)- and I shot with him only once.

He did offer some advise tha worked at the time, but Everytime I go to the range, I'm adjusting a little more. I have finally found something that works pretty well for me now.

I dont recognised your screen name - who are you? (the filipino's should get a kick outta my e-mail addy)

Wow so a guy in 1989 who told me he trained with DeLeon was wrong, I am shocked SHOCKED!

I will have to go re-evaluate everything now.

Best part of this forum:



There's a KDL group in the PI. I think the guy who teaches is Ronald Isla (I met him).

And dude, please change your e-mail addy. Last thing I want is having nightmares about a mantutuli who hits on teenage girls. Just kidding Steve. The guys from back home told me you were cool, a little weird and sick though, but cool. hehe

Toby -


It was sixto's brother BASTE' who gave me the name. I was in the PI training with Tuhon Gaje'. I was plannin on staying for a few months. Tuhon wanted me to be his American Rep(as well as start a pit bulls chapter in cali), and we were going to do a lot of intense trianing.

I had to leave early and I couldnt recieve my instructorship in PT -

So I fly back to Manilla until I got a fight back to the states (I stayed at Alvin's place for 2 weeks until a flight opened up). So we were all hanging out (Alvin, Baste', Sixto, and a few other's) And I'm bummed I cant continue my training.

So Baste goes "Just tell everyone in the states Tuhon gave you the title of GRAND MANTUTULI -

Baste' is one funny MF'er - LOL - even to this day I call people "squatters", because of a comment he made to some dude while drunk AT THE GUY'S OWN B'DAY PARTY -

Man, you got me thinking back to some good time in the PI with those guys -

As far as a KDL group in the PI

Maybe?? thats where his brother in law is.

His wife is filipino as is he, and they married there before moving to Toronto -

As far the poeple authoriaed to teach - that came directly from today -

You can check him out at

and contact him and ask him if anyone is authorized to teach in the PI

He goes back at least once a year

Just talked to Baste a couple of days ago. The guy's really busy with school.

Don't you miss the nightlife in Manila? Everything's cheap, no stupid curfews and no stupid cops acting like tough guys. hehe

Sige mantutuli, wag kang kadiri ha? ;)

This ronald isla guy came from Canada too I think. He's got that western accent whenever he speaks tagalog.


Is Ronald isla the guy teaching KDL?

Guro Jun is PISSED - no one has the authority to teach his system.

He's also pretty pissed that anyone is talking bad about his system too.

My tagalog is very poor - I e-mailed Alvin yesterday, and he emailed me back - I'll send him another e-mail and ask him to translate your last message for - all I got out of it was " Go on (proceed) Mantutuli" and "ha" as in laugh -

If you talk to Baste' agaon soon, tell hi hello -

I was upset I didnt get a chance to see him when he was in the states -


"wag kang kadiri" - Don't be a sicko, ok? haha

kadiri means "gross". haha!

All I know is that the group in the PI named the Submission Dungeon has students who have trained in KDL. I know some people there. I'm not really sure if Isla does teach or represent the system. I could ask but I'd rather not get involved with the politics.

Anyway, I'm Squatter now. ;)