Attn: Rev, Pastor Sherm

i need some help with a verse I am looking for. In a post on here a few months ago (cannot find it) there was a verse that talked about "no man will see heaven before another" or something like that. It basicly was saying that noone is in heaven yet, not until God's kingdom is created on Earth. I may be imaging things. I have looked but cannot find it. Figured if someone knew you guys would.

Thanks
gord96

ttt

I never heard of that verse BUT there are specific website that can help you track down bible verses.

Try:

www.biblestudytools.net

and

www.blueletterbible.org

thanks very much

gord I'm not sure that I've seen that verse either. i think you may be refering to the thought in theology that says after you die, the soul is in a state of rest until the day of judgment, when God will raise the dead. i don't think that is scriptural.

yours in Christ

sherm

your probably right....I'm not sure where i thought I saw it...oh well....thanks for your relpy...

Yeah, I don't think it's an actual verse either. I think it's an inference some have based upon Jesus telling the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Where Lazarus was in "paradise" and the verses that say, the "dead in Christ will rise first" almost indicating that the presently dead in Christ are either in some restful state or "paradise." There are some other verses they use but I can't recall them right now.



As always,

Puzzled

Puzzled it has nothing to do with the Lazarus story, in fact the Lazarus story is the key to smacking that doctrine around.


1Thes 4:13-18
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18Therefore encourage each other with these words.
(NIV)

I think this is talking about the bodily resurection. Like Christ was raised bodily so will we all. Paul also says, absence from the body is presence with the Lord. Meaning when we die our spirt goes to be with God until the final resurection where our bodies are raised, and perfected, and we live with Christ forever.

the rev

Rev, I agree with your understanding that we'll go directly to Heaven and your interpretation of 1 Thes 4:13 - 18.


But some believe that the "paradise" used in the story of the rich guy and lazarus is not Heaven. And the "paradise" that Christ told the thief on the cross was not Heaven either. Some believe that this "paradise" is a holding place for the godly until the final trump and Jesus' return and judgement. Here's a link to some guy giving an answer to a question similar to gord96's.

http://www.barr-family.com/godsword/clarification-heaven-paradise.htm





Puzzled

I don't believe paradise is heaven either, it was Abrahams bosom. I was just saying the two passages aren't in anyway associated.

the rev

I don't believe that the 2 verses are directly associated either, but there are others who do. Regardless, I agree with you.





always a good idea :)

the rev

rev paul also could be refering to the Rapture as well in that verse...which i believe is what he was doing.

yours in Christ

sherm

Ofcourse he is, he is speaking of both.

the rev

ok..right then...carry on

yours in Christ

sherm

ahhh....makes more sense now....

thanks very much

I know it can be taken figuritively if so choosen to...but in REvelations it speaks of the MArtyrs asking Christ when they will be "avenged"(sorry the actual word is slipping my mind but that is what i'm thinking it is) so that would infer that there are christians in heaven already

Also this may be a good time to bring up a basic christian concept that humans have taken out of context.

Heaven is the place where God is at.

most christians associate Heaven and Eternity as being in unison...however

Humans Final Home will be the rebuilt Earth where we will live with Christ.

So simply logically it makes sense to assume that our "souls" or "spirits" will be in Heaven at death and that on Christs return our "Spirits" will be reunited with our Bodies, just the transformed ones Christ will give us!

Good thread!

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