B.J. Penn conditioning myth

Not everyone has the same cardio potential. Two runners train the same number of hours and push themselves equally hard and compete in a mile run. The first can maintain a 60 second/quarter mile pace for only a half mile and finishes the mile in 4:30. The second can maintain the pace for the entire distance and finishes in 4:00. Why? Because the second has greater cardio potential and is naturally more talented as a miler even though they trained equally hard.

Yes, B.J. doesn't train as hard as Matt. But even if he did, and even if the training didn't burn him out, he couldn't maintain the same pace as Matt through 5 5 minute rounds.

It doesn't help that he gave up 15-20 pounds against Matt because it takes fuel to deal with the additional weight. But he gassed against Jens over 5 rounds. He's not a distance runner.

B.J. could get in better cardio shape, no doubt, but we don't know and shouldn't assume he has the potential to go five rounds at the same pace as some other athletes.

twinkies. imo.

If he can't get the conditioning then maybe he isn't the natural athlete that his lover boys think he is.

ban this [insertracehere]^

There are different kinds of natural athletes. Power lifter vs. football player. Sprinter vs. distance runner. B.J. is a freakishly gifted natural athlete but not apparently in his cardio potential.

pcraig has raised a damn good point. It's like a sprinter against a middle-distance runner. The sprinter will start out ahead, but he's going to get caught and passed as the race goes on.

Just based on cardio...I think Richard Simmons would kill both of those guys. In a bitch slap competition.

In a bitch competition too.

I agree with pcraig's argument. But it just begs the question, how hard has BJ trained his cardio? If he hasn't trained as hard as possible, then his cardio won't be as good as it could be. If he has, then it will be. So did he or didn't he train as hard as possible?

We can't assume that because he didn't train as hard as Matt he doesn't have the same cardio potential.

Also, there seem to be two camps around here, one that believes his cardio went to hell in round 3, and one that says he broke a couple of ribs (presumably from Matt's kick), causing him to zombify. The latter is according to John McCarthy. Which is true? Both?

let me guess you fatties have never done serious conditioning in your life

if sak and royce can go 90 minutes, "the prodigy" should be able to hang 2 rounds or more

Unless, of course, he WAS ready, but the broken ribs shut him down.


this is a very interesting concept that I can help expand a little bit...The threadstarter is correct in general, and most people would not really think this deeply into the concept of cardio potential.

I'm a Registered Physical Therapist, and I also have competed in many sports including high level wrestling, sub grappling, MMA.

Even though i may have trained incredibly hard i always seemed to be lacking in long term endurance compared to others who didn't put in the same time as i did.

It wasn't until later in life that i started understanding cardio potential and thinking more about it. To put this in more simple terms...everybody has a normal resting heart rate during the day, some people are up near 80-100 beats per minute and some near 50-60 (even if they don't train), it's just a genetic difference between people.

basically, your MAX heart rate (the highest your heart can pump), is 220-(your age).

people with higher heart rates tend to be phenomenal in the short term with explosive activities. People with the very low rates means that their heart and cardio system is working much less during the bout, and it's probably not working even close to the max heart rate....This gives the person with the genetically lower heart rate (the genetic rate that he has prior to getting into some sort of training), and incredible advantage over the other fighter.

I'd be willing to bet Hughes' rate is naturally much lower than BJ's yp begin with....giving him much more cardio potential, and long range fighting capability.

"Cardio" has more to do than physical conditioning training alone.

BJ running out of gas has NOTHING to do with his genetic potential.

I'm tired from reading this thread.

well, Hughes' is plenty explosive himself, but yeah, I have a relatively low heart rate and just don't explode into my doubles ;o(

It is worth repeating (as it was said above), if a chain-smoking, boozing, Sakuraba is able to fight for 90 min. against Royce, and then 15 min. against Vovchanchin, well being lighter than both (on that day), it seems that BJ Penn should be able to go more than 10 min.?

Remember, he did go 25 min. against Pulver (yes, he was fatigued), and he did have a good 5th round against Uno (also 25 min.), and in the third round he finished Gomi (who hadn't been finished before at that point).

Perhaps BJ did have his ribs broken by Matt's kick? That actually makes Matt's win even better than it was. BJ was fitter than he was against GSP and gassed harder than he did in that fight, based on looks...

but the premise of this thread is correct. Not everyone can be as flexible as BJ, as good at kicking as CroCop, as strong as Karelin, as, etc.

"if sak and royce can go 90 minutes, "the prodigy" should be able to hang 2 rounds or more "


Yeah, but 90 minutes of what?  90 minutes of what, makes the difference. Intensity? Movements?

Perform 200 bodyweigth pushups one day (time it) and write down exactly how you feel IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD.

Perform 200 bodyweight squats one day (time it) and write down exactly how you feel IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARD.

Try to complete both test without stopping.

And then analyze your handwriting on both papers. Tell me which is worse. And also explain which one was more tiring and why?


200 reps is 200 reps is just like saying 90 minutes is 90 minutes

Not so!

It was not his cardio . His ribs seperated while trying to take Hughes back late in the second round. He thought he should finish him because he knew something was wrong. AFter the round he went to his corner in pain but never said anything. He came out positive but had no core strength to strike or defend a takedown. When Matt hit him in the ribs it was painful and he rather gave him his face. When Matt got the crucifix he trained for getting out, but his core strength was gone from the ribs being seperated.

The above was paraphrased from BJ's own words.

What the fuck is "core strength"?

"His ribs seperated while trying to take Hughes back late in the second round"

What is wrong with his anatomy that that would happen?

"AFter the round he went to his corner in pain but never said anything. "

He thought he'd save it up as an excuse if he lost.