Baptized w/ the baptism of Christ?

Mar 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

-What Baptism (immersion/burial) was Jesus referring to?

1) Baptized in water as He literally was?
2) Baptized in blood and water as He was when He hung on the cross?
3) Baptized in the Spirit at (new) birth as He was from birth?
4) Baptized with persecution as He was?
5) Baptized with the gospel as He was?
6) ...all of the above?

So I ask you, have you been baptized with the baptism of Jesus?

It is a baptism of martyrdom.

Peter*, James and John were told by Christ that they were to suffer martyrdom.

And no, I have not been martyred (yet).

-Tom Bombadil

*John 20:18-22 (Jesus speaking to Peter) "Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go." (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, "Follow me."

Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who had been reclining at table close to him and had said, "Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?" When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!"

Tom...only a physical martyrdom? NO spiritual application (by the way, get to work on our emai, you don't have time to be here ;-)

I agree that he is talking abot martyrdom.No,I also have not yet been martyred.I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit,but no,I am still alive for the time being.

Hmmmm something to think about.

Tom,

Good post!

Tom, I think you are limiting that verse...

How so?

-Tom Bombadil

because rooster thinks water baptism is nessessary for salvation.

good try Josh. I asked if he thought it was just limited to martyrdom.

Jesus was LITERALLY baptized, in water (as was the world-Noah, the Jews-Red Sea, gentiles-Naaman, Our Saviour, the apostles, the converted etc.)

However, I was not limiting my question to water baptism. Does it allude to spiritual death? Does it allude to Spirit baptism. Does it allude to conversion? Does it allude to being buried with Christ in every manner in which one can be...(including being baptized with Christ in water)?

Jesus said that, "He that believeith and is baptized shall be saved, he that believeth not (and consequently wouldn't get baptized) shall be damned."

Although this is not where I was primarily going, the bottom line is that word "and" which makes the first part of the sentence INCOMPLETE w/out the 2nd part and in greek (Kai) it more closely relates as the word "EVEN" THUS baptism and belief being seen as ONE act.

By the side of Adam came the Bride (Eve). By the side of Christ comes the Bride (the Church) born of BLOOD AND WATER.

*sets down new baby son and goes back to computer after vowing to quit looking at this thing*

Josh, let's compare the 1st birth to the 2nd birth. Does a baby have to pass through blood and WATER (completely immersed or covered in it) do leave it's old world and enter a new world?!?

I just experienced this and YES, a baby does.
A baby repents (must turn direction) and leave a world of comfort, AND DARKNESS.

A baby is surrounded IN WATER and passed through blood and water (whether a natural birth or c-sectin). The baby is totally immersed in water and blood.

Finally, the baby enters a 'NEW LIFE' or new world of light, and fellowship and guidance and utters it's 1st unintelligible words (mutterings, gaspings, cacklings, cryings, sqealings etc.) and although we do not understand the words, we know it represents the articulation OF THE BREATH OF LIFE!

Thus the first birth mirrors or types the 2nd birth which types the gospel. We see repentance (turning around), burial in water and application of blood, and the spirit or breath of life. All considered 1 birth experience.

*picks up son and swears off forum* :-)

Love ya Josh, just profoundly and passionately disagree. However, if you want to ignore the water baptism "piece" might it offer an example of more then physical martyrdom?

If Rooster's so obsessed with water, someone should stick him in a box and mail him to Arrakis. :-)

hehe, the Baron will get him.

Keeping in mind Jesus' main audience, wouldn't this refer back to the mikveh?

IBI: If Rooster's so obsessed with water...

me: 1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood.

rooster...i think that even though it's not written in scripture that it's safe to say that the disciples were some of the first people baptised by jesus. so they probably were already submersed into water by this point.

Rooster,

I do not disagree that the second birth into the spirit is much like the first. The analogies in the scriptures are beautiful and perfect descriptions of what happens to the believer.

Thats why its so important to have the baptism ceremony to identify with your new birth. Thats why water is involved. There is clearly symbolism drawn from all over the place in scripture in regard to baptism.

But the baptism of the holy spirit is the second birth, where you obtain the spirit, by faith. Baptism is done out of obedience to Jesus and the church and its traditions established by the apostles, I believe under Gods authority. However, baptism is not what saves you, that is why in the 1st Peter 3 he says "not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So what saves you? The pledge of good conscience toward God, not going under water.


Yes, Jesus would have been practicing a mikveh...though usually those weren't done in the jordan were they? I thought typically a mikveh had to be done in a special bath or something? Maybe Im wrong about that though.

Pretjah, good point. That's why I was not limiting it to water baptism nor to martyrdom. What does it mean to be baptized with the baptism of Christ? Baptism means to be buried or immersed. It would indicate to me completely taking on Christ...his life, death etc. You make a great point.

Josh, excellent points as well. I, in fact agree for the most part with what you write. I even agree semantically with the point that baptism doesn't save you...Jesus does. I do believe that baptism is part of the "appointed time and place" in which grace is appropriated by faith and obedience.

I would only say that 1st Peter 3 is saying baptism doesn't wash the outside but essentially, the inside. It's not the removal of dirt but that it takes away the inner guilt. Thanks!

P.S. IBI...

Jhn 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

My "obsession" is with Christ, who shed his blood, which was shed for the remission of sins. The blood was/is in the water :-)

Baptism doesn't take away the inner guilt FAITH in the atoning work of Christ does!

If baptism by water were necessary for salvation,then you (we)would have something to do with our salvation.I think water baptism is great as an outward and public expression of one's devotion to Christ.I do not believe that it is necessary for salvation (in any means whatsoever) though.