"That's why I think once you take the elbows out you get more uh, better quality fights".He was talking about the new unified rules allowing more elbows and how in Pride it was the reason why there were more submissions. Bas said it was the elbows, because a fighter will choose to throw an elbow over risking losing position due to a submission attempt. Jay Hieron tried defending elbows because he's won a lot of fights by cuts due to elbows. Bas asked if he ever ko'd someone with an elbow, and of course he said no.I couldn't agree with Bas more. Elbows only stop fights prematurely. How many elbows have ko'd someone in comparison to the number of cut stoppages?
What about the stat with the ratio of ko's by elbow and cut stoppages? Thanks for that stat though.
I'm surprised that Bas would be against elbows...he certainly would have lost the Randleman fight if he wasn't able to employ them!
Bas is the man but I I've never agreed with the supposed ability or inability of elbows to knock someone out as being a legit litmus test for if they should be allowed. That kind of criteria isn't used elsewhere, ie. jabs, leg kicks, etc.
bo's should of neva ben allowed on ground
Just because something doesn't give a guaranteed KO, doesn't mean it's useless - elbows are integral to MMA as it not only hurts the opponent it also aids the fighter to move to better positions by making their opponent defend.
There's been enough promotions out there that don't use elbows - you can see how limited fighters become as it becomes waaaay easier for the guy on the bottom to simply wrap the arms and hold on rather than using technique and skill to get out of the bad position.
studiocamp - What about the stat with the ratio of ko's by elbow and cut stoppages? Thanks for that stat though.
How about these stats ...
Q: When was the last time there was a cut stoppage in the elbow-happy UFC, how was that cut caused, and how many fights have they held since that cut stoppage?
A: UFC 77 Belcher-Starnes fight, caused by a knee from the clinch, 133 consecutive fights since then without a cut stoppage.
Q: When was the last time a fight was stopped due to cuts from an elbow strike in the UFC?
A: UFC 61 Stevenson-Edwards fight. Over two years ago.
Q: When was the last time someone scored a (T)KO with elbow strikes in the UFC?
A: UFC 84 Kim-Tan fight. Less than two months ago.
Don't forget that vertical elbow spikes have just been brought back.
You can expect a hell of a lot more KOs and TKOs from now on.
When someone is mounted, they cannot defend by simply hugging. They will be receiving a flurry of vertical elbow spikes to the collar bone or top of the head.
Mark my words.
You guys should be politicians. The point is the chance of an elbow prematurely stopping a fight is much greater that ko'ing someone.
The stat comparing the number and ratio of submissions should stop on the same day that Pride did, just to be fair.
Awesome stats guys. People who complain about elbows are the guys who dont know how to defend them.
I would love to see knees on the ground added with the elbows.
It creates more action on the ground when you can strike and do damage from more positions.
boilerbrawn - Awesome stats guys. People who complain about elbows are the guys who dont know how to defend them.
I would love to see knees on the ground added with the elbows.
It creates more action on the ground when you can strike and do damage from more positions.
End of thread IMO.
studiocamp - The point is the chance of an elbow prematurely stopping a fight is much greater that ko'ing someone.
Over the past two years, there have more elbow KO's than elbow cut stoppages in the UFC.
Love the mythbusting, keep it up.
studiocamp - You guys should be politicians. The point is the chance of an elbow prematurely stopping a fight is much greater that ko'ing someone.
Everyone else has backed up what they're saying with numbers. Can you provide verifiable data to support your conclusion?
"studiocamp - You guys should be politicians. The point is the chance of an elbow prematurely stopping a fight is much greater that ko'ing someone."
Seriously? Your weak argument got torn apart in this thread. You just keep repeating the same claim without any evidence to back it up.
Wow--very interesting post Dead Again. Where did you get those figures?
***Edit--saw that you got them from Sherdog's fight finder. Thanks for posting. I hope you didn't tally that by hand!
studiocamp - The stat comparing the number and ratio of submissions should stop on the same day that Pride did, just to be fair.
The stats don't exist anymore, because Sherdog keeps them up to date. Nonetheless, I know for a fact that when I checked the same statistics before PRIDE went out of business, they were pretty much the same: a higher percentage of stoppages in the UFC.
If you feel that the UFC's had so many submissions and so few decisions since PRIDE kicked the bucket that it would have had a significant impact on these ratios (it has not changed, as I said, but maybe you don't believe it), you can feel free to add it up for yourself within your desired timeframe. All the necessary information is on fightfinder.
If any of you have the time it would be cool if you went through all the orgs. stats and added up the ratios. It would help in a lot of the arguments on this forum.
Bas says some of the dumbest things
What was the period for those statistics? Since the begining of said organization, since the end (Pride)?