Assume that private lessons with him are not ridiculously expensive,about $100/lesson.
Basics are a 50 lesson program. In the Q&A it says that the black belt program is 300 lessons. It also states that at 2 times per week, that is a black belt in about 3 years.
I am certain that this is the Gracie Jiu jitsu/ self defense techniques model and not the generic BJJ/sport model.
So the question is is it legitimate?? He is an 8th Degree black belt and carries the Gracie name, so that is a good reputation, and he has only produced 1 blackbelt(well 2 if you count his son Rodrigo).
I could see it happening with 2x/week privates, and 5x/week other training/sparring. With that kind of attention/personal guidance, it doesn't seem to be that unrealistic for a good athlete. Should it be guaranteed? Absolutely not!
Twice a week for 3 years with no other training? No fucking way.
First, I am not belt hunting. I live on the East coast. This school, I think is in Nevada.
A few people I know were talking about this just as conversation. You know, "If you had alot of money and were able to train alot, what could you do??"
I'm not advocating this, or even saying I would want to try it, but the school has bee there for a long time and he is a high ranking Gracie.
I imagine this along the lines of the same kind of jiu jitsu that is taught by Rorion only in a one on one format. Didn't Dr. Rey, the plastic surgeon, get a blue belt from Rorion after 5 months of PRIVATE lessons???
Imagine learning all of those techniques without being in a class with 30 other people.
Also, it does not appear to be a belt factory, because besides his son Rodrigo, he has only produced one other blackbelt.
I take privates occasionaly. I find they help tremendously with certain aspects of my jiu jitsu. I just wonder how someone could do with exclusive private lessons.
Ok. Just for the sake of a discussion, lets look at a couple of programs.
Specificallly: Gracie Miami run by Pedro and Gui Valente, Gracie Academy Torrance with Rorion et al., Kioto Jiu jitsu by Francisco Mansur and this guy Reylson Gracie.
All are high ranking jiu jitsu instructors that teach basically the same curriculum: Gracie Jiu jitsu. No MMA, no training specifically for sport/competition(although some do compete), just jiu jitsu as Carlos/Helio did it.
Any of these places you go and get group lessons. They are very popular schools, so it is easy to conceive that there could be 20-30 people in any given 1 hour class.
At an average of 2 training sessions a week in a group class, it's possible for brown or black in about 6-9 years.
*** Lets not fight about how long it takes to get a black belt. I beleive Marcel Feitosa of Gracie Barra has gone on record saying that 12 or 15 years is ridiculous and that some one training consitantly 2-3 times a week should get a black in about 5-6 years***
So, is it feasible(I didn't say desireable) that someone with dedication and alot of money could train 3 times a week with PRIVATE lessons and get a brown or black in three years and be legitimate. I'm not talking about a PanAm or Mudial Champion, but a legitimate rown or black???
BJJ is not just about techs... you have to react instantly with no thought to a given move with a counter move etc... if you think you are to late.... this takes alot of time.... unless you are a genius natural with alot of dedication... you can not get the bb in 3 yrs.
So the general consensus is in no way can this be legit. And that 150 Private lessons (3x per week for say 50 weeks, because everyone takes a few holidays) would not advance a practioner faster than 150 group lessons.
Interesting.
Please understand that I'm not an advocate of the aforementioned program. Doesn't matter how long you do private or group, if you can't make it work you don't get the belt.
However, it does seem to me that getting one on one training(Private) compared to an equal amount of group lessons should provide a more than signifigant advantage regardless of belt rank.
Chango, I agree that one on one training with an expert is very very good, but very few things could replace live rolling with different people. If you somehow learn to hang with Reylson and will be able to defeat his game, it doesn't mean that you'll be able to adapt to a good, explosive wrestler. Getting the BB, imo, is as much about experience of trainig with different people of different levels, abilities, strategies, etc, as it is about learning new moves. Without the interaction with a wide spectrum of other BJJ players, training is would be like doing Kata.
^^^ Excellent. Very well put. I had never thought of it like that before. The kata analogy makes very good sense.
These responses also beg another question. If you trained privately for 3 years I think you would have a very good grasp of the fundamental 240 techiques(or whatever number Helio envisioned). You would not know things such as half guard,x guard, turtle guard and all the latest and greatest fancy tournament techniques.
If we listen to all the greats Rickson, Xande,Saulo, etc.. they all emphasize that the top guys use the fundamental or basic techniques, albeit at a high level.
So if you added the caveat of different partners as Kot1k has show is definately necessary, and received privates focusing on just the original curriculum(lets say the 240 techniques ala Rorion or the Valentes or Mansur or Reylson) but never entered a competition, is your black(or brown) worth as much as any other??
How long is each training session? If each of the sessions are 2.5-3 hours, then maybe yeah, a brown or black is possible. If only an hour, I would doubt it.
But of course everyone has different standards for each belt. For example, a Machado blue belt is harder to get than a Gracie Academy blue belt. But a Gracie Academy purple belt is harder to get than a Machado purple belt(This is coming from a Machado purple belt, btw.)
A blackbelt in three years is not impossible. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been more Americans to get a belt that fast.
A kid at my academy had got his blue belt then took a few years off. He was maybe low to mid-level blue before he left. He came back and started working at the academy and got his BB maybe 2.5-3yrs later. Very legit, you just have to put the work in. Of course he was training far more than 3 times a week.