I'm not a total beginner, but I haven't lifted in years.
I am leaning towards doing a compound exercise routine. I've read that those are best for strength and mass gains. I found 3 routines listed here - BodyBuilder.com Compound Workouts.
I am leaning towards doing the 3rd place routine, because it fits in better with my schedule. It is a full-body workout done twice per week:
Squat (substituting Leg Press, due to lack of spotter / Smith Machine)
Deadlift
Bench Press
Bent-Over Row
Military Press
Pullups (substituting Lat pulldown, because I can't do any pullups yet)
Dips
Will this workout be sufficient to see some good gains? I have a friend who works out a lot, and he thinks this routine is silly, because it is only 2 x per week, and it doesn't hit each muscle group enough. He believes in 2-3 different exercises per body part.
If you guys have a better compound routine, I'm all ears. I could maybe go 3 x per week.
Dont listen to your friend.
Get on SS.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs
Do the squats. Start light and take the time to learn the proper form. Leg press wont do anything close to what squats will do for your body.
Dont substitute lat pull down for pull ups. If you cant do one pull up start with negatives. Jump into the chin over bar position. Slowly lower yourself down. Do sets of this until you can do one pull up and go from there.
From the Starting Strength website:
The Original Starting Strength Novice ProgramEdit
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans
Workouts A and B alternate on 3 non-consecutive days per week.
Does this mean?
Week 1: Mon-A, Wed-B, Fri-A
Week 2: Mon-B, Wed-A, Fri-B
Also, I am looking for a combination of strength AND mass, so shouldn't I do a program with more reps?
Do the squats. Start light and take the time to learn the proper form. Leg press wont do anything close to what squats will do for your body.
Is it safe to do squats without a spotter?
SirPrize - From the Starting Strength website:
The Original Starting Strength Novice ProgramEdit
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans
Workouts A and B alternate on 3 non-consecutive days per week.
Does this mean?
Week 1: Mon-A, Wed-B, Fri-A
Week 2: Mon-B, Wed-A, Fri-B
Also, I am looking for a combination of strength AND mass, so shouldn't I do a program with more reps?
Yes, it means the schedule is as you put it. And no, you don't need more reps. 5x5 is more than enough volume to put on muscle mass as well as strength. It's a great routine.
As for squats, you'll be starting quite low, so you won't need a spotter. Just go light at first, get the form down, and gradually increase in weight. After a couple months, you might want one, but until then you'll be fine.
Thanks, Dizz.
What about biceps? I don't see anything that works them. Do some of these exercises actually hit the biceps, or is that something that I need to add (now or later)?
Chinups are great for biceps.
Lifting 3x per week is plenty. 2x is better than nothing.
How many sets/reps per exercise? At three near maximal sets I'd be toast by pull-ups/lat pull down.
I'm not really in any position to be giving advice, but I think a total body workout 2xweek would be efficient for most any goal, whether it be strength/mass gains, fat loss, or maintenance.
I say give working out 2xweek a try before not including it due to something you've read/heard online.
^ The program on bodybuilder.com was 3 sets of 12-15 for the first 8 weeks. Weeks 9-16, it 3 sets 8 on Monday, then 3 sets of 6 on Thursday. There is also a 5x5 program for intermediate lifters, but I'm a beginner.
Here's the link - the editor stripped it out of my first post:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw46.htm
(I'm looking at the 3rd place program)
If you're primary goal is to put on muscle, lyle mcdonald's generic bulking program is good, but I never see it posted here:
Mon: Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8/3? (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3? rest)
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3?
Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2?
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2?
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3?
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2?
Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3?
Row: 3-4X6-8/3?
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2?
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2?
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5?
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5
For the Thu/Fri workouts either repeat the first two or make some slight exercise substitutions. Can do deadlift/leg press combo on Thu, switch incline/pulldown to first exercises on upper body day. A lot depends on volume tolerance, if the above is too much, go to 2-3X6-8 and 1-2X10-12
Thanks, Harry. This looks like a good program.
I found a very in-depth pdf on his program:
Lyle McDonald Generic Bulking Routine – FAQ
Well, you have to decide what your goals are. You can do a mix of strength and size, or focus on one or the other. Your plan will change, and possibly radically, based on what you wish to pursue.
My personal preference is to get as strong as possible, and leave that bulking/cutting shit to guys who are either gay or else wayyyy too concerned about appearances.
If you decide strength is what you want, Josh Gibson essentially ended this thread with the first reply. I'll leave the bodybuilding routines to others, as I know next to nothing about that crap.
And as for your concern about squatting and spotters - well, this is a great rationale for using either a squat rack or a power cage with pins at a reasonable height. Experienced lifters who have access to bumper plates can simply dump the weight, but you need a bit of training to learn how to do that properly and safely. Aside from that, Mark Rippetoe (author of Starting Strength) has some hilarious observations on what he calls "the butt rape spot" that he sees most people using to spot squats, most of which have to do with how it's actually a horribly ineffective and stupid way to spot someone with anything more than average bodyweight on the bar...
For a beginner 'strength training' and 'bodybuilding' aren't much different.
Beginners can make steady strength gains with as little as 50% of 1RM. They may as well do a little more volume if their healthy and relatively athletic -- enjoy it while it lasts.
And you'll never get 'really strong' if you don't do some hypertrophy work -- virtually all of the popular strength routines (Westside, 5/3/1, 5x5) are maximal effort work + "bodybuilding". For people who don't compete in strength athletics, the 'bodybuilding' part probably contributes more to their overall strength and health.
My primary goal is size and shape. The associated strength will be more than enough for my needs. (I no longer trane.)
I will review the programs you guys listed. In the meantime, I still need to work out, so will you give me some feedback on the reps I'm doing in my program?
I try to do every set to muscle failure - or to where I cannot do another rep no matter how hard I push it. I am shooting for muscle failure at 8 reps. Therefore, I have to either lower the weight so I can max at 8, or do fewer reps with the same weight. Is this the right approach, or should I only go to failure on the last set?
5-8 reps is the sweet spot for a high-level of recruitment and enough volume to stimulate adaptation. Though you should sometime go down to sets of 3-5 and up to 10-15.
I wouldn't suggest training to failure on every set, it's not necessary and it's much harder to make progress if you start training with your 8 rep max in week 1. Where do you go from there? You don't instantly become stronger after one trip to the gym.
Maybe in a 6-8wk block you could train to failure in the last two weeks. For the first two weeks start with weights you know you can handle for the prescribe rep range and slowly add weight to the bar each week.
Thanks, Harry.
I guess I don't know how to find the correct weight, then. I mean, as an exaggeration, I could easily do 8 reps with only 10 lbs, but I won't be making any gains that way.
I remember reading/hearing that some people do reps with a certain percentage of their one-rep max. Schwartzenegger said that this percentage works out to fatiguing at about 8 reps.
How do you suggest I determine the right poundage to lift with?
If you haven't been training regularly percentages of your 1RM aren't really that meaningful.
You mentioned that you've been doing a few sets to failure at about 8 reps. Just knock 10-20% off that and start from there.
Starting too light isn't a big deal as long as it's not ridiculous (like pink dumbells). How hard you work in your first few trips to the gym doesn't matter that much, just get started, make progress and be consistent.
ttt
In my (very limited) experience, there are three things missed by beginners who want lots of size and shape:
1. You don't eat enough. Seriously, you need to eat like an animal, eat clean but eat a ton. If you're young and still sore for days after lifting (and you're not putting on a lot of weight fast), you probably aren't eating enough.
2. You don't sleep enough. Sleep is mandatory - if you average 6 hours a night, good luck growing bigger and stronger. You should shoot for 8-9 if you can, and more might be better, YMMV.
3. Keep in mind that if you BUST YOUR ASS for 6 months and lift super hard, using a solid program with great form and attention to detail, when you are done you WILL NOT look like the dudes in the muscle magazines. Truth be told, you will probably look thick and almost fat. That means you did it RIGHT - the next step is to drop the fat by slowing down the enormous amount of food you're eating. If you did your program well and grew a lot of new muscle, your metabolism will be sky-high, and of course if you keep lifting all that exercise will burn the baby fat very quickly. Remember that all those pictures of super-ripped dudes are photoshopped to hell and gone, and even so they are done on guys that got huge first and then dieted down to get ripped. Now, I'm not saying it can't be done that you go from small and skinny straight to ripped, but fact is that it is a LOT harder (and takes a lot more time) than simply getting really big and then dropping down.
Graciebarra 847 - I have a 2 day a week workout routine and it goes like this.
5 sets of 5
Day 1
Deadlift
Shoulder press
Chinups
Day 2
Squat
Bench Press
Rows
This workout will make you strong however if you are looking to get a good beach body and bang girls at the club than the 5 day a week blast each body part is better for you!
This is almost exactly what I do, but I don't do rows and chinups -- I have a pullup bar at home and I do 2-3 sets of pullups every few days.
I have had great gains on this. I was thinking of going to 5-3-1, but decided not to fix something that's not broken. 5 X 5 seems to get you to a spot where you are moving some legit weight, and from there you can go to 5-3-1.