Best argument against "Gun Control"

Has to be Richard Ramirez, The "Night Stalker." I watched specials about him in the 90s but you don't realize how fucked up he actually was until you read the rundown of his crimes. I realize cases like this are extremely rare but there are people like Ramirez alive today. I don't know how the hell you could just decide the odds are in your favor and not take any precautions to defend your family.


"Night Stalker" crimes

On June 28, 1984, 79-year-old Jennie Vincow was found brutally murdered in her apartment in Glassell Park.[27] She had been stabbed repeatedly while asleep in her bed, and her throat was slashed so deeply that she was nearly decapitated.[28]

On March 17, 1985, Ramirez attacked 22-year-old Maria Hernandez outside her home in Rosemead, shooting her in the face with a .22 caliber handgun after she pulled into her garage.[29] Inside the house was her roommate Dayle Okazaki, age 34. She had heard the gunshot and ducked behind a counter to hide when she saw Ramirez enter the kitchen. He was waiting when she checked to see if he was gone, and he shot her once in the forehead, killing her.[30] Hernandez survived her attack because the bullet fired at her ricocheted off the keys she held in her hands as she lifted them to protect herself.[31]

Within an hour of the Rosemead home invasion, Ramirez struck again in Monterey Park. He attacked 30-year-old Tsai-Lian "Veronica" Yu and pulled her out of her car onto the road. He shot her twice with a .22 caliber handgun and fled.[32] A police officer found her still breathing, but she was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital.[33] The two attacks occurring on the same day bolstered media attention, and in turn caused panic and fear among the public. The news media dubbed the attacker, who was described as having long curly hair, bulging eyes and wide-spaced rotting teeth, "The Walk-in Killer" and "The Valley Intruder".

On March 27, 1985, Ramirez entered a home that he had burglarized a year earlier in Whittier at approximately 2 a.m. and killed the sleeping Vincent Zazzara, age 64, with a gunshot to his head from a .22 caliber handgun.[34] Zazzara's wife Maxine, age 44, was awakened by her husband's murder, and Ramirez beat her and bound her hands while demanding to know where her valuables were.[35] While he ransacked the room, Zazzara escaped her bonds and retrieved a shotgun from under the bed, which was not loaded.[36] An infuriated Ramirez shot her three times with the .22, then fetched a large carving knife from the kitchen.[37] Her body was mutilated with multiple stab wounds, and her eyes were gouged out and placed in a jewelry box, which Ramiriez left with.[37] The autopsy determined that the mutilations were post-mortem. Ramirez left footprints from a pair of Avia sneakers in the flower beds, which the police photographed and cast. This was virtually the only evidence that the police had at the time. Bullets found at the scene were matched to those found at previous attacks, and the police realized a serial killer was at large. Vincent and Maxine's bodies were discovered by their son, Peter.[38]

On May 14, 1985, Ramirez returned to Monterey Park in search of another random victim and entered the home of Bill Doi, 66, and his disabled wife Lillian, 56.[39] Surprising Doi in his bedroom, he shot him in the face with a .22 semi-automatic pistol as Doi went for his own handgun.[40] After beating the mortally wounded man into unconsciousness, Ramirez entered Lillian's bedroom, bound her with thumbcuffs, then raped her after he had ransacked the home for valuables.[41] Bill Doi died of his injuries while in the hospital.[42]

On the night of May 29, 1985, Ramirez drove a stolen Mercedes-Benz to Monrovia and stopped at the house of Mabel "Ma" Bell, 83, and her sister Florence "Nettie" Lang, 81.[43] Finding a hammer in the kitchen, he bludgeoned and bound the invalid Lang in her bedroom, then bound and bludgeoned Bell before using an electrical cord to electrically shock the woman.[44] After raping Lang, he used Mabel Bell's lipstick to draw a pentagram on her thigh, as well as one on the wall of both bedrooms.[44] Discovered two days later, both women were found alive but comatose; Bell later died of her injuries.[45][46]

The next day, he drove the same car to Burbank and sneaked into the home of Carol Kyle, 42.[47] At gunpoint, he bound Kyle and her 11-year-old son with handcuffs and ransacked the house.[48] He released Kyle to direct him to where the family's valuables were; he then sodomized her repeatedly.[49] He repeatedly ordered her not to look at him, telling her at one point that he would "cut her eyes out". He fled the scene after retrieving the child from the closet and binding the two together again with the handcuffs.[50]

On the night of July 2, 1985, he drove a stolen Toyota to Arcadia, randomly selecting the house of Mary Louise Cannon, 75.[51] After quietly entering the widowed grandmother's home, he found her asleep in her bedroom. He bludgeoned her into unconsciousness with a lamp and then repeatedly stabbed her using a 10-inch butcher knife from her kitchen. She was found dead at the crime scene.[51]

On July 5, 1985, Ramirez broke into a home in Sierra Madre and bludgeoned sixteen-year-old Whitney Bennett with a tire iron as she slept in her bedroom. After searching in vain for a knife in the kitchen, Ramirez attempted to strangle the girl with a telephone cord. He was startled to see sparks emanate from the cord, and when his victim began to breathe, he fled the house believing that Jesus Christ had intervened and saved her.[52] She survived the savage beating, which required 478 stitches to close the lacerations to her scalp.[53]

On July 7, 1985, Ramirez burglarized the home of Joyce Lucille Nelson, 61, again in Monterey Park. Finding her asleep on her living room couch, he beat her to death using his fists and kicking her head. A shoe print from an Avia sneaker was left imprinted on her face.[54] After cruising two other neighborhoods, he returned to Monterey Park and chose the home of Sophie Dickman, 63.[55] Ramirez assaulted and handcuffed Dickman at gunpoint, attempted to rape her, and stole her jewelry; when she swore to him that he had taken everything of value, he told her to "swear on Satan".[56]

I dunno, bringing up a description of how a serial killer used a handgun to kill a bunch of people doesn't seem like a good argument

On July 20, 1985, Ramirez purchased a machete before driving a stolen Toyota to Glendale.[57] He chose the home of Maxon Kneiding, 68, and his wife Lela, 66.[58] He burst into the sleeping couple's bedroom and hacked them with the machete, then killed them with shots to the head from a .22 caliber handgun.[59] He further mutilated their bodies with the machete before robbing the house of valuables.[59]

After quickly fencing the stolen items from the Kneidling residence, he drove to Sun Valley. At approximately 4:15 am, he broke into the home of the Khovananth family.[60] He murdered the household patriarch, Chainarong Khovananth, by shooting the sleeping man in the head with a .25 caliber handgun, killing him instantly.[61] He then repeatedly raped the man's wife, Somkid Khovananth, beating and sodomizing her. He bound the couple's terrified eight-year-old son before dragging Somkid around the house to reveal the location of any valuable items, which he stole. During his assault he demanded that she "swear to Satan" that she was not hiding any money from him.[62

On August 6, 1985, Ramirez drove to Northridge and broke into the home of Chris Peterson, 38.[63][64] Ramirez crept into the bedroom and startled Peterson's wife Virginia, 27; he shot her in the face with a .25 caliber semi-automatic handgun.[65] He shot Chris Peterson in the temple and attempted to flee, but Peterson fought back and avoided being hit by two more shots during the struggle before Ramirez escaped.[66] The couple survived their injuries.[67]

On August 8, 1985, Ramirez drove a stolen car to Diamond Bar and chose the home of Elyas Abowath, 31, and his wife Sakina, 27.[68] Sometime after 2:30 am he entered the house and went into the master bedroom. He instantly killed the sleeping Elyas with a shot to the head from a .25 caliber handgun.[69] He handcuffed and beat Sakina while forcing her to reveal the locations of the family's jewelry, and then brutally raped and sodomized her. He repeatedly demanded that she "swore on Satan" that she wouldn't scream during his assaults.[70][71] When the couple's three-year-old son entered the bedroom, Ramirez tied the child up and then continued to rape Sakina.[72] After Ramirez left the home, Sakina untied her son and sent him to the neighbors for help.[73]

Ramirez, who had been following the media coverage of his crimes, left the Los Angeles area and headed to the San Francisco Bay area.[74] On August 18, 1985, Ramirez entered the home of Peter Pan, aged sixty-six, and killed the sleeping man with a gunshot to his temple from a .25 caliber handgun.[75] Pan's wife, Barbara, 62, was beaten and sexually violated before being shot in the head and left for dead.[76] At the crime scene Ramirez used lipstick to scrawl a pentagram and the phrase "Jack the Knife" on the bedroom wall.[76]

When it was discovered that the ballistic and shoe print evidence from the Night Stalker crime scenes matched the Pan crime scene, then-mayor of San Francisco Dianne Feinstein divulged the information in a televised press conference.[77] This leak infuriated the detectives in the case, as they knew that the killer would be following media coverage and have an opportunity to destroy crucial forensic evidence.[77] Ramirez, who had indeed been watching the press, dropped his size 11 1/2 Avia sneakers over the side of the Golden Gate Bridge that night.[78] He remained in the area for a few more days before heading back to the L.A. area.[78]

On August 24, 1985, Ramirez traveled 76 miles south of Los Angeles in a stolen orange Toyota to Mission Viejo, and broke into the house of Bill Carns, 29, and his fiancée, Carole Smith, 27, through a back door.[79] Ramirez entered the bedroom of the sleeping couple and awakened Carns when he cocked his .25 caliber handgun. He shot Carns three times in the head before turning his attention to Smith. Ramirez told the terrified woman that he was "The Night Stalker" and forced her to swear she loved Satan as he beat her with his fists and bound her with neckties from the closet.[80] After stealing what he could find, he dragged Smith to another room to rape and sodomize her. He then demanded cash and more jewelry, making Smith "swear on Satan" there was no more. Before leaving the home Ramirez told Smith, "Tell them the Night Stalker was here."[81] As he left in the Toyota, thirteen-year-old neighbor James Romero III noticed the same "weird-looking guy in black" that he had seen earlier in the night and thought suspicious, and he decided to write down as much of the license plate as he could.[82] Carole Smith untied herself and went to a neighbor's house to get help for her severely injured fiancé. Surgeons were able to remove two of the bullets from his head, and he survived his injuries.[83]

Seems more like a good reason to carry. Phone Post 3.0

PatK - 

I dunno, bringing up a description of how a serial killer used a handgun to kill a bunch of people doesn't seem like a good argument

Maybe if he only used handguns but he used many different weapons to kill people. Killers will kill. Guns or no guns, but you can be sure a criminal won't have any issue getting a gun if he wants one, legal or not.

I remember that shit...I was 14 and lived in Whittier at the time and remember it was hot as fuck when this shit was going down. People were scared to open thier windows at night. Me and and 3 or 4 friends all bought bb gun pistols at K-Mart because of it. Ha...



Oh and yeah, fuck gun control...

Im not pro gun laws but im not getting how this is the best argument against gun control laws.

People breaking laws isnt a good argument against having laws. There are laws against murder. That doesnt stop criminals from murdering people. So should we not have laws against murder?

Good reason to carry a gun? Sure. But not a good argument against gun control laws Phone Post 3.0

The Noose - Im not pro gun laws but im not getting how this is the best argument against gun control laws.

People breaking laws isnt a good argument against having laws. There are laws against murder. That doesnt stop criminals from murdering people. So should we not have laws against murder?

Good reason to carry a gun? Sure. But not a good argument against gun control laws Phone Post 3.0

I absolutely disagree. Many laws are practically void because they give criminals an upper hand. "Gun Free Zones" are the perfect example of that.

I'm just saying I'd go to any measure to defend myself and my family against a homicidal maniac like Ramirez. I'd never put the safety of my family on the line over a bullshit law like only being able to own a 7 round magazine.

I'm not against reasonable mental evaluations for purchases but I don't believe anyone should obey the gun laws being passed in the northeastern states. "One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws"

While this is debated, I'll go get a giant roll of tinfoil so all the paranoid "they're coming for my guns" nuts will have something to keep out the space rays. Phone Post 3.0

I always thought the mutual destruction theory was pretty good one.

Our nation adopts power as a deterrent, but not to the individual?

Case closed imo. Phone Post 3.0

There are crazy people out there, a person should be able to defend themselves on an even playing field.