BJ & Fedor: a quick comparison

Just thought of a few things while taking a shit just now.

With BJ taking Hughes' back from guard and nearly or threatening to finish Hughes recently, I think that answered a question about BJs guard. Many people said that BJ had never been spectacular from his back and while that was true, i had mentioned that was also because he's hardly ever on his back (most fighters cannot put him there).

But i was pretty sure that for BJ to beat Hughes, BJs guard would be a major factor because i thought, just as it happened (not so) coincedently, Hughes did have some early trouble taking BJ down but I was positive Hughes would get the td eventually (whether after 1 or 5 attempts).

From there, though I think Hughes' effort and pressure has been pretty underated by the BJ fans, unsurprinsingly ;p, (re: his passing attempts and gnp as opposed to Hughes doing "nothing"), BJ showed how badass his guard can be.

Now, my epiphany on the shitter, yeah, anyhow, i think that very move clinched BJs spot as the most rounded or versatile fighter in the sport....skill wise.

BJ has shown how dangerous his hands can be. Against GSP, I think most people thought, including myself, that GSP would have the edge standing but BJ def had the upper hand when they boxed (in round 1 only however).

BJs tds and td defense is also quite stellar. Though he lost the td battle against GSP and Hughes, those are 2 of the best td guys in the sport as well. Against all else though, BJ has usu. had the upper hand in that department. He took down Gomi and Uno numerous times and, at LW, those are 2 of the better wrestlers.

From the top position on the ground, BJ is trouble. He has the hands to hurt and the submissions to make you tap. But BJ also showed how dangerous he is from the bottom as well against Hughes (though he showed nothing however against GSP).

So how does he compare to Fedor then?

Fedor has the more dangerous hands imo, standing or GNP. The WW div does not have a Crocop but the HW div does and Fedor outboxed him. Fedor's GNP and sub game did look fairly unspectacular and sloppy (respectively) against CC but for the benefit of the doubt, Fedor's injured hand could have come into play for the GNP (i dont think he punched too much with his injured hand on the ground).

I would say BJs td defense is superior to Fedor's as BJ gave Hughes (the best td fighter in MMA) some early trouble there but Hughes still got the td off the bat in round 2. Fedor has been taken down easily by Coleman and dumped on his head as we all know by Randleman. Though in both situations, it looked as if Fedor did not look concerned about the tds too much because he attacked pretty aggresively with striking.

TDs is hard one to judge since BJ has taken down some great wrestlers himself but Fedor took down CC where Coleman and Randleman failed. But this is a pretty grey overall MMA situation though as Fedor's mix of striking and tds is among the best in the sport (if not the best).

So while BJ nutriders are having their consolation saying BJ is the more "skilled" fighter over Hughes, and I dont necessarily disagree, people are also saying Hughes is the overall better fighter because of consistency, cardio, heart, etc.

This is where Fedor obviously excels over BJ. Fedor's has been the champ and defending left/right/center. BJ has still yet to defend a title. Fedor has also showed masterful MMA ring generalship and the ability to maintain that over the course of a whole fight (vs. Nog and esp. vs. CC).

BJ has shown to break in his will to win fights on occasion.

So while I remember when people were saying Busta was the most complete fighter in the game some time back, I was saying it was BJ. Busta has since faded, Fedor became the new king of the sport but some say Hughes surpassed Fedor with his win over BJ as the greatest single fighter in the sport.

I also thought so but I do now withold that notion because of BJs so-called injury. To me, it just leaves some questions marks where if the injury didnt happen, Id agree that Hughes is the undisputed most accomplished and best fighter in the sport.

Still, though Fedor still has some years to go Hughes, at this point, Hughes has faced better opposition tahn Fedor.

So.........if youve bothered to read up to here, this is what I say:

BJ = most skilled fighter in the game

Fedor = the most complete fighter in the game

Hughes = the most accomplished fighter in the game

And actually, maybe not such a "quick comparison" but IMHO, spot fucking on!

i think you are missing the point here.
a fight is a fight.

in fighting, skill has to equate to getting the job done.
it isn't now fluid they look, or what moves they can pull.
it is how these moves end up resulting in a win.
the word you are looking for is not skill.
the word is potential.
BJ Penn has the most "potential" of any fighter. not the most skill.

Good post

Truthfreesyou, for the record, let me just that I think both Fedor and Hughes are overall better fighters than BJ.

Semantics can kinda take over my last statements you do seem to get my point, BJ may have more potential than anyone but potential is still a 'what if,' which you have to look no further than the fact that bj fans tend to use that term alot where it does not need to be included in talking about fedor.

BJ = most skilled fighter in the game

Fedor = the most complete fighter in the game

Hughes = the most accomplished fighter in the game

I'd agree with that, for the most part.......

On the other hand, the one time BJ made something happen from his back, he ruptured himself :P

Also, I'd still say Fedor is more skilled than BJ. Fedor is a much better wrestler (Randleman and Coleman are well above Hughes and GSP in terms of wrestling accomplishments, and are the only two guys to give Fedor any wrestling trouble, and Crocop is above Pulver's level in takedown defense), and quite a bit better on the feet (I'd say, since BJ barely outstruck Hughes and couldn't outstrike Pulver, while Fedor has outstruck guys like Mirko).

And "Best Fighter" would be between Fedor and Hughes at this point...

"On the other hand, the one time BJ made something happen from his back, he ruptured himself :P"

LOL!

"Randleman and Coleman are well above Hughes and GSP in terms of wrestling accomplishments"

Not in MMA though. Hughes is heads and tails a better wrestler than MC and KR in MMA. Im not really gonna bother arguing GSP as this or that as a wrestler but he did pancake Frank Trigg on pure grappling skills alone (unlike the striking/td mix he pulled off against Sherk, similar to Fedor on CC).

"Fedor is a much better wrestler (Randleman and Coleman are well above Hughes and GSP in terms of wrestling accomplishments, and are the only two guys to give Fedor any wrestling trouble, and Crocop is above Pulver's level in takedown defense),"

Not even close imo.although I think Fedor is better fighter overall, interms of wrestling BJ is far better.

randleman, coleman took down fedor like it was nothing. I dont think any wrestler in LW or ww can do that to BJ Penn. remember they both couldnt takedown crocop and randleman also couldnt take down jackson.arona also took him down.

also fedor has hardtime taking down a lot of guys until he outstrikes them for few minutes.

Good thread.

From: Wasa-B
Date: 09/30/06 12:29 AM
Member Since: 01/01/2001
14540 Total Posts Ignore User

"On the other hand, the one time BJ made something happen from his back, he ruptured himself :P"

LOL!

"Randleman and Coleman are well above Hughes and GSP in terms of wrestling accomplishments"

Not in MMA though. Hughes is heads and tails a better wrestler than MC and KR in MMA.


I wouldn't say that at all. He's a much better /fighter/ than Coleman and Randleman, but even in MMA, he's not a better wrestler than Coleman. Coleman has /never/ been on his back, whereas Trigg and GSP both took down Hughes (albeit they couldn't keep him down for long).

"Fedor's GNP and sub game did look fairly unspectacular and sloppy "

Joke? Fedor GnP game has by far and away the best GnP on the planet! It is anything but "sloppy" He uses his hands like no other on ground, is so fluent at hitting and moving and transitioning from GnP to subs. He used puching combos you clear the guard and move from position to position.

Hughes has the best GnP in UFC, but when you watch him 8/10 he fixes his position then hits. Most other fighters GnP from guard or mount, again from a fixed postion. Fedor on the other hand used his GnP progressively for example he will used the hook in a cross hook cross combo to clear the legs and pass guard, or to open him up for the following cross. Hammer fists from side to set up armbars and leglocks. Hammers fist to roll opponents and progress position.NO ONE has GnP like him.

Fedor = most skilled fighter in the game

Fedor = the most complete fighter in the game

Fedor = the most accomplished fighter in the game

I love Penn but the difference between him and Fedor is the drive caused the bitterness of poverty he suffered. BJ never starved a day in his life. Fedor fights like people are trying to take away his food.

"Fedor's GNP and sub game did look fairly unspectacular and sloppy "

"Joke? Fedor GnP game has by far and away the best GnP on the planet!"

Well, i was referring specifically to the CC fight where he never hurt or put together any solid GNP, did he? Like i said, perhaps, since on the ground and he was in full control of CC, he chose not to use his injured hand?

The irony is that CC defended himself better in guard than Nog did while he lost the standup battle to a "judoka."

"To add: Fedor has a "clinch game"...which Hughes nor Penn has chosen to develop...yet!"

I dunno about Penn but just because Hughes doenst do greco or judo style moves doesnt mean he cant take someone down from the clinch, come on, now. He just prefers leg attacks but he has also clinched and dumped how many people?

"LMFAO @ comparing Fedor to anyone, let along a guy with a 10-4 record."

Easy, kid. I am more a fan of Fedor than pretty much anyone but that doesnt mean i cant compare 2 fighters in the sport. Dont be like a BJ sack surfer.

"Well, i was referring specifically to the CC fight where he never hurt or put together any solid GNP, did he? Like i said, perhaps, since on the ground and he was in full control of CC, he chose not to use his injured hand?

The irony is that CC defended himself better in guard than Nog did while he lost the standup battle to a "judoka.""

 So your comparing two fighters and judging fedor on one fight?

Both guys have unreal "squirmability" or the ability to reposition themselves on the ground.

I don't know if BJ has more potential than Fedor just because Fedor is at the pinnacle of the spot. While BJ is a stud and the argument can be made for him to be highly competitive against anyone up to 170lbs, Fedor has more than proven his ability to handle anyone his has crossed paths with. His skills at judo, sambo, and his incredible timing (for striking and takedowns.

His ground battle aginst Nog showed how accurate his bombing strikes are. He could do this b/c Nog has an active guard style.

CC ground style was to try to neutralize and tie up Fedor. I think Fedor realized this and was winning the standing battle so he didn't risk too much.

Great and inteligent thread though Wasa-B

Hououin Kyouma - ttt
What a low life piece of shit