"Wouldn´t an BJJ instructor be offended if you asked him his requirements for belt promotion?"
If he gets offended at that question, it's time to look for a new school.
"with all due respect, what do good character, consistency in training have to do with getting a promotion? "
Getting promoted means that you represent the man who promoted you. Not too many instructors want to be represented by someone without good character...
Good Question!
I have trained with both types of BJJ instructors: With standardized requirements, and without. I don’t like the fact that you don’t have any idea what you need to know in order to progress. How can you ever achieve your goal if you don’t know what they are?
I think you get more out of your students whether in school, or martial arts, if the requirements are clearly defined.
Dave
"How can you ever achieve your goal if you don’t know what they are? "
the goals is to get better. roll more often and you will. even good traditional masters tell student to just STFU and train.
"Elvis, with all due respect, what do good character, consistency in training have to do with getting a promotion? This isn't tkd; if you have blue skills, you should get a blue belt. Right?
Let's not turn bjj into tkd with a list for each belt rank to be checked off and graded..."
Not that way at all and I agree with Elvis' criteria for promotion. If you are a dick with no integrity (character) and/or you you do not have the training consistency that shows you are part of the school (not just a hitchhiker) then why in the Hell would he promote you? Sure some Black Belt might just because of a tourney result or something but there are other criteria.
All of my regular students are awesome people. They contribute to my class, have great attitudes and help each other get better. I am very proud of them for that as well as their performance on the mat.
Some other guys drop in once in a while just for some mat time. They don't care about safety or anything that doesn't directly relate to their own workout.
Who do you think I am going to work harder for to prepare them for their next promotion?
I thought asking for promotion requirements would send the "wrong message", that you are more interested in getting colour on your belt, more than knowing the "art of BJJ" or something like that.
For me personally, it´s both getting to know BJJ but also get a receipt that you have developed your skill to a certain point.
what are the requirements to be a good musician, painter, etc? subjective.
s98ronin & FJJ828 are correct.
Our goal is to make BJJ Black Belts and the qualities of a Black Belt IMO are more than just being able to tap people. I want guys who have the skills and put them to use, I want guys who have the knowledge and are able to pass them on, I want guys who will represent me and my school and make me proud. If you're not looking to better yourself, then find someone who isn't interested in you at all.
I have no problem with how other instructors promote their guys or for what reason they do it. It's their choice. We do things our way which we believe is the best way. Not everyone coming through the school is going to be a world champion. There are alot of factors involved, size, age, physical ability, and so on. What's important is that it is an equal platform that everyone has an opportunity to strive for.
"Elvis, with all due respect, what do good character, consistency in training have to do with getting a promotion? This isn't tkd; if you have blue skills, you should get a blue belt. Right?"
See my previous point regarding consistency and character. Ok then, how do you define "has skills"? How would you test for or know if some "has skills"? The way we do it is by setting a syllabus of moves that we feel that everyone of that level should be able to do. All of our students enjoy the fact that they know what they need to aim towards to achieve the next level. They also know that there is more involved and that application is just as important as knowledge.
"I thought asking for promotion requirements would send the "wrong message", that you are more interested in getting colour on your belt, more than knowing the "art of BJJ" or something like that."
Just make sure you word the question right. Ask your instructor what qualities and abilities he looks at for each level. Actually be interested in what he has to say. I enjoy talking about BJJ to my students and never consider any question to simple, pointless or dumb. If you want to know, I'm willing to answer. Also, if I don't know the answer, I will say so and do my best to find out.
Elvis
TTT for Elvis.
ttt
"Elvis, are you saying that you think you could tap me? Just repeat that to yourself..."I can tap untappable" "
Oh of course not. I know you wouldn't tap... it would be nighty night sleepy time for Untappable... there's always an answer if you look hard enough... :)
Elvis
lol...nice
ttt
hey guys, Im one of elvis' blue belts here in Sydney.
i think one of the main requirements in getting a blue belt is consistency in training and dedication.
i dont agree with the concept of beating other blue belts consistently to achieve blue belt level. What about a wrestler who knows nothing about BJJ and easily beats blue belts or even higher? does that mean he deserves a blue belt in BJJ?
Thanks for some good insights, especially to Elvis who takes the time to answer a simple white belt mat hack. Keep the discussion going.
Elvis just took ownership of "untappable"!!
I agree with everything you've said 100%, Elvis. That is pretty much identical to Roy Harris' overall perspective, as well.
As to standards, I believe they are very important to continued progression through the ranks. I've got my blue from Roy. I've got 5 of my students who have taken and passed Roy's blue belt test as well. And although I can whoop on each of them easily enough, there are still a couple of things I've got to improve on before I am going to get that purple. (Injuries hold you back from training properly, and that really sucks). Yes, I've beaten blue belts my own size (from other schools), and can even hang with many of the purples I've rolled with. But it's nice to know EXACTLY what I have to improve on to get that next promotion. Roy's blue belt test is a "technique list," but also requires demonstration of what he calls a "low level skill" in certain areas. For Purple and above, it's more about integrity, character, and an ever-increasing SKILL level in the areas he outlines for each belt. Knowing more techniques won't hurt you, but it's not necessarily going to help you much, either. There is a set standard, but it is still based on performance, it is NOT like a TMA where you do something against the air and you "know" it.
Lots of people give out blue belts without knowing your "character." Roy Harris will even let a total stranger take his blue belt test, and promote him if he passes it. However, you've got to PROVE your character as much as your skills if you want any of the higher belts from him.
Blue belt is a low level belt, guys. It doesn't really mean THAT much. As Elvis said, the BLACK is what it is really about. Perhaps if we had more standards to go by, less people would QUIT this sport and art before they got their Purple belt. Remember, most people give up while still a blue............
Adam
Hey Lorenthz
We must live in parallel universes. I just started training BJJ after doing sub wrestling for 3 years at my school and with cops and such around town. I heard that Dave Phillips, a BB under Sauer landed in San Antonio at least for a while, and I signed up.
I rolled with him for the first time on Monday and my eyes are WIDE open. I though I had a sense of what jiu-jitsu could be...damn, was I wrong! It was like the first time I hopped on a modern superbike after riding 500cc motorcycles from the 1980s. Totally redefined my sense of possibilities.
I too was wondering about blue belt requirements. After not caring about rank or anything for the last 3 years, I find the gi, the belts, and the discipline of training at a "real" gym with 15 or more guys consistently to be a really rewarding experience. I'd like to have the priviledge of earning rank in such a context.
Ken
Also by setting a standard, it forces people to "achieve" something. Westerners are GOAL driven. We're not the sort of people to lay back and say "it will happen". We want to know how long and what can we do to make it faster.
Also, by creating a standard, or platform, it makes it easier for someone to become a coach one day and promote their students. How would you feel if you were promoted to Black Belt and you never really knew exactly what your instructor was looking for when he promoted you. Wouldn't that make it difficult for you to promote your own students?
What we've done with our requirements is not created a list of moves that "guarantee" the next belt, but created a list of moves that is what we consider the "minimum standard" that you need to know to achieve the next rank. There's a theoretical part to the grading (showing you know the moves) and a practical part (grappling your partner and pulling off the moves). aThere's also what we consider character traits (behaviour, dedication, etc) which we think are just as important. We look at ensuring our students have a complete education in BJJ.
Just another perspective on the whole situation.
Elvis
Great points, Elvis. Nice post.
Thanks Adam.
Elvis
"So you reward them if they contribute to your school? Hogwash."
Read much? Evidently not. I said if the guy is not on the team, why should I bust my ass to get him promoted? If an instructor's opinion of a person's character and their representation of that school did not mean anything, then strap on whatever belt you want. Why do you need a promotion?
"Royce and other true BJJ authors often give belts out at seminars; they don't know a thing about the person they're giving it to, they could be an axe murdered."
And I strongly disagree with how those "true BJJ authors" (including Royce) do that. I think it is BS. I would only want that recognition from my own instructor.