BJJ Book Review: Choque Volume 3

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey all;

Posting here in case it's of interest.

Roberto Pedreira released the third installment of his series "Choque: The Untold Story of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil" recently, covering 1961-1999.  I was actually a little disappointed in this one.

It's got plenty of interesting stories, and I'm glad I picked it up; but there's a bitterness in the writing which keeps sneaking in, and really weighs it down.

Review is here: http://mmanuts.com/news/book-review-choque-volume-3-by-roberto-pedreira/

Hope you enjoy. I linked my reviews to his previous volumes there too.

Thanks for reading.

 

Cool, I enjoyed the other ones Phone Post 3.0

Thanks Chip. Hope you enjoy the review.

 

Loved book 1 and 2. Thanks for the review, didn't even know this was out. Phone Post 3.0

I found the first two to be biased, but the third one was pathetic. The author clearly has an axe to grind. It's a shame because he is a talented writer and I think the community could use a neutral, academic account of the history of our martial art. Phone Post 3.0

^the first one seemed very neutral to me. I mean, it's just a reprinting of newspaper articles with a little added commentary for the most part.
I'm going to check out vol 3 soon Phone Post 3.0

I agree with ChipW, the first was pretty neutral in tone, overall and was mostly a compendium of old documents and newspapers (their biases aside).

Yeah, he may have jumped to a conclusion or two but I thought the first volumes were pretty neutral.

This third volume didn't offer that impression, unfortunately. So much that it leaves me wondering about those first two volumes -- especially since I've seen at least one claim, that the media accounts of vale tudo matches (etc) quoted in Choque were kind of "cherry-picked" to paint the Gracie family in a negative light.

Still, some good stuff in Vol 3 too.

In short, what's his bias?

shen - 


In short, what's his bias?



I gave a few examples in the review. Just a bitter feeling to a lot of the prose, and to an extent, just seems to have it out for Helio & Carlos Gracie.

All 3 were good reading IMO.

shen -


In short, what's his bias?

I'm an American so I'm definitely looking from the outside in. But it's my understanding that the Brazilian newspapers of the time were often biased in a way similar to US media today. I was told by people who were alive for many of the events in Vol 2 that the Choque account of the Gracies read like a biography of Obama written using Fox News and the New York Post as the only references.
I don't train under Gracies nor do I idolize any of them. I was just hoping that at Choque would be impartial and scholarly. It had way too much of the author's opinion and interpretation for me. Phone Post 3.0

OK, thank you.

TTT for any other opinions. Thanks to all who read the article.

I have read the first two volumes. The author clearly has a very low opinion of Helio and Carlos. No argument there.

However, I would tend to lean more towards Roberto Pereira's stance being the correct one. We know by now that a lot of the Gracie "history" as fed to us via the "official" Gracie channels is heavily doctored and exaggerated. It is modern day myth making, largely attributable to Rorion Gracie. At least regarding the Helio side of things.

Periera does allow his feelings to show in his books.One could argue that he shows his bias too freely at time, but everything (in the first two volumes anyway) is drawn from existing comtemporary sources. He isn't simply making things up.

Sir Drinks a lot - I have read the first two volumes. The author clearly has a very low opinion of Helio and Carlos. No argument there.

However, I would tend to lean more towards Roberto Pereira's stance being the correct one. We know by now that a lot of the Gracie "history" as fed to us via the "official" Gracie channels is heavily doctored and exaggerated. It is modern day myth making, largely attributable to Rorion Gracie. At least regarding the Helio side of things.

Periera does allow his feelings to show in his books.One could argue that he shows his bias too freely at time, but everything (in the first two volumes anyway) is drawn from existing comtemporary sources. He isn't simply making things up.

 

I agree for the most part, but I was disappointed with the third. It's just bitter and opinionated in places where those previous volumes mostly just stuck to the facts.

 

Here's an example: Pedreira describes George Gracie trying to start a luta livre/vale tudo promotion in 1972.

This was happening as a pro wrestling scene, known as "telecatch," was growing.

But here's how Pedreira describes it:

"Telecatch appealed primarily to children and younger women. They didn’t know the difference between real fighting and telecatch and if they had, they probably wouldn’t have preferred real fighting because real violence is disturbing to psychologically normal humans."

It's weird. He's just lashing out.

That's one example I gave in the article. There's a lot more.

 

I've always felt that Pereira should write a book with anecdotes from training in gyms all around the world. He drops a few gems here and there and they're hilarious. This scholary factual approach was pretty boring if you ask me.

NicolasRGC - I've always felt that Pereira should write a book with anecdotes from training in gyms all around the world. He drops a few gems here and there and they're hilarious. This scholary factual approach was pretty boring if you ask me.


Agreed.  I barely got through the first book because it was very dry.  I might enjoy his third book, biases and all.

NicolasRGC - I've always felt that Pereira should write a book with anecdotes from training in gyms all around the world. He drops a few gems here and there and they're hilarious. This scholary factual approach was pretty boring if you ask me.


His site Global Training Report houses a few. I agree, some of these are really good.



GTR Academy Reports



He does something similar with his first book, Jiu-Jitsu in the South Zone 1997-2008, but it's all Brazilian jiu-jitsu in Rio.

One last TTT. Thanks guys.