BJJ Experts...question bout Brock/Herring...

I only watched the fight one time (when it was on live), but if I remember correctly, Heath was never able to get to full guard against Brock.



Obbviously a lot of that has to do with Brock's training and speed/quickness, etc....as well as Brock hurting Heath right off the bat with that straight right.



But what, if anything, could Heath have done to get to guard and use more of a traditional BJJ bottom game?



And also, do you think someone like Gonzaga, Werdum or Nog would have a hard time getting Brock into their guard?




By the way, you don't have to be a BJJ expert to answer.



I would just like to hear what they have to say.

 

I should've just titled this thread "Attn: The People's Knee"

A combination of an oilcheck/ball grab manoeuvre with a firm and violent yanking motion would probably bring Brock into guard.

"Is herring known for his bottom game?"



Not really, but he's trained with some phenomenal coaches and training partners and has years and years of submission training/knowledge.

EvilMaster - A combination of an oilcheck/ball grab manoeuvre with a firm and violent yanking motion would probably bring Brock into guard.


Borderline ghey...even for you!

:)

eh, train some more bjj?

I mean that with all due respect...he's looked good defensively before (against nog in pride specifically), but I cant remember ever seeing heath look dangerous off his back.

I honestly dont know that guard would've done him much good...me thinks he would've just gotten crossfaced & pounded from the front instead of the back.

as for the rest...well, it remains to be seen what brock does in an elite bjj guard...he's not been there yet (in public anyway), and until we see it I dont think we can realistically predict what will happen. imo it will come down to his camp and how well they prepare him for that experience.

that said, imo mir's sub wasnt indicative of weak sub defense all the way around...I'd wager he's much harder to sub anywhere else besides the legs...and after mir caught him, he's probably tightening that up as well.

I could be wrong, but intuitively I think he's just to green to compete with the likes of nog, werdum, etc...they generally thrive on aggressive overbearing styles like that, and arent afraid to take a shot to advance position. I think he'd get neutralized and caught against bjj guys of that caliber. likely subbed from guard.

Herring never go to Guard....he maybe think he is Sakuraba.

Even against Fedor he got destroyed in the turtle positions and never thought about going to the guard




ps : Brock is the new BOB SAPP...when BOB SAPP first came he destroyed his first competition and everyone thought he was imbattable until everyone began to beat him.....

the same thing will happen to Lesnar...(he has still beaten no one in the top 20)

heath really never has used the guard much. He prefers to scramble back to his feet, and is surprisingly good at doing this while sidemounted

"Herring would have been finished if he had pulled guard."



I'm not sure I agree with that, but I suppose it's possible.



GSPeedonFitch, good post.



And jujubre, no one is "
imbattable", no one!

dangerboy12 - heath really never has used the guard much. He prefers to scramble back to his feet, and is surprisingly good at doing this while sidemounted
My view also.  He generally turtles and then grabs and arm, rolls and takes sidemount.

 

"And also, do you think someone like Gonzaga, Werdum or Nog would have a hard time getting Brock into their guard?"


No.

WOD 502 -  IMO the guy to submit Brock from guard would be a big guy who is good at high/rubber guard. He's going to have to be a big boy though, because i'm picturing Brock having damn near unbreakable posture...No wrist control is going to happen...






ah ,the rubber guard.

Using Rubber Guard to try and block his posture might be helpful as far as avoiding damage. Gonna be next to impossible to keep him in it though.



I agree with Nog being the man for the job. I think Werdum might be able also, but I'm not sure about Gonzaga (which is why I was hoping for him as Brock's next opponent).

 heath's strategy has always been to go to turtle and let his opponent try to put hooks in, and then scramble and take top guard position....he's never been a real bottom guard player....



brock didn't fall into his trap probably because he's more comfortable in ref's position/top turtle and didn't want to risk losing that position....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK2YA4prkdQ&feature=related

Leo Vieira - recover the guard from turtle position

IMO, if Herring would have rolled to guard he would have been G&P'd into a ref stoppage.

OriginalTUFer -  Dude, if you pulled rubber guard, you would get knocked out. Didn't Epstein get slammed into oblivion while pulling rubber guard? Someone like Brock, unless you are Brock's size, you are just asking for a BRUTAL slam.


the first thing that came to mind was belcher/day...its not unthinkable that another big guy with a solid RG could neutralize brock and stick him in a box down there.

however, is there such a creature out there? I cant think of any heavyweight RG players off the top of my head. so there goes that.

but still, I think someone like nog or werdum could neutralize brocks striking on the ground with just solid basic bjj and exploit his inexperience and deep seated wrestling tendencies.

 I tend to agree with GSPeedonFitch's first post.  IMO, it's tought to use the guard offensively in MMA against a big huge guy like Lesner unless you are really good at it like Minotauro or Werdum.  Perhaps he could have used it more as a defensive strategy, but it would be tough because of Lenser's size.  As a general rule of thumb, it's better not to be underneath an opponent who is bigger than you are.

Heath was in the position to roll for kneebar several times. Even if he did not hit the kneebar , he could have created a back door scramble to attack the legs and feet , or possibly stand up or get guard.

Nogueira would make Brock his bitch. Look how easy Mir did it. While Mir has great jiu-jitsu (especially for a huge man), I dont think it is on par with Big Nog's.