I'll tell you, man, I understand where you're coming from. I think every class I goto, I always get a little scared when I have to roll, especially with bigger, stronger, and more skilled guys than myself. But you just gotta suck it up and do it, ya know? You gotta want it. It's okay to be scared, but you can't let that stop you.
tai chi
Do privates.
Get some instructional DVDs and mats and someone else who is interested. Train together and control the pace.
Don't listen to people rambling on about 'devloping toughness' and 'learning by tapping'. Until you've mastered a few techniques from each position and can chain them together into a workable strategy, then live full speed rolling encourages spazzing, strength instead of technqiue, and injury.
^what FingerorMoon says. "Until you've mastered a few techniques from each position and can chain them together into a workable strategy, then live full speed rolling encourages spazzing, strength instead of technqiue, and injury."
"There's a saying in Jiu Jitsu, "where you are is where you need to be"."
I hadn't heard that one before, I like it! Doesn't really fit every situation, but I like the concept.
kbits - huh?
Even recreational Judo clubs compete in tourneys.
Too many people in bjj think its all about beating down newbies because that's how they grew up in the sport. Merely stating it that way expresses how counterproductive that is. How many wrestlers would have gone to D1 if the environment had been consistently "beat down" instead of progressively "bringing [you] up"?
lol @ bringing up wrestling as an example of a more nurturing learning environment! have you ever been to a wrestling practice or trained with wrestlers?
^Good point. Conceded.
lol @ recreational judo clubs being easy on the body. It's only because it's compared to competition judo training which brings to mind Donn Draeger's comment as "judo is the Great Crippler".
Rec. judo guys still randori hard and train and get dinged up in training.
BJJ doesnt weed out pussies, it turns pussies into tough SOB's. Suck it up, hang in there, and in a year you will look into the mirror and see a man instead of a pussy.
This isnt your typical fake, ego stroking MA. Its real, it teaches in a realistic fashion.
Commit to your BJJ, do not drop out no matter how poorly you think you are doing, your time will come, and you will be so grateful you stuck to it in the end.
I'm assuming that they people you train with aren't actually try to injure you or that they aren't just being unnecessarily rough. Then it sounds like it would be a lot healthier for you just too toughen up a little, instead of avoiding real training. Even if it's a struggle in the beginning, you will probably like the result very much. Don't try to replace something like bjj with some half assed illusion like jjj. I actually think that the only thing you need to be fairly successful in bjj is perseverance. You definitely don't need to be some kind of born warrior from the start.
THis post off Sherdog, may give you some food for thought:
Originally Posted by TheSum View Post
I had a lot of anxiety when I started boxing and Muay Thai a few years ago. I had a little background in TKD, but I wanted to learn some real stuff, so I joined a serious gym. It was owned by a couple of MMA pros and the instructors were ex-pro boxers, etc. It was very very intimidating. And since I had some experience people kind of expected something from me. But I wasn't that good, and all of the guys who were training to be fighters thought I was a joke. Well, in a way I was -- in their eyes, and I can see why. But I had to learn some things about myself and that place before I got over it.
1) I was not a natural fighter. A lot of the guys that at that gym were tough kids. Some had been to jail, and would talk about all of the bar fights they got in. Well, I was the kid who got beat up in high school, so this wasn't exactly my scene.
2) I was just interested in MMA as a hobby. I had a full-time job, a girlfriend, and interests outside of fighting. It was unfair for me to compare my skills to these guys who pretty much lived at the gym everyday.
3) It was natural for these guys who had dedicated their whole lives to fighting to be cliquey. Why wouldn't they be?
4) This is fighting, and one of the biggest things I needed to learn was how to toughen-up mentally. I hadn't really realized that I could use these guys shunning me as PART OF MY TRAINING. Being cool under pressure was something I needed to master, just like a punch or a knee, so it was actually beneficial to have that training outside the ring too -- because it was much more necessary for me.
Once I figured out that stuff, I felt better about myself, my skills, and the gym. The learning curve for me was long. I had to unlearn a lot of bad habits from TKD, so it actually took me longer than the average bear to get comfortable. I remember I sparred a guy who had only been there three months when I had been there nine, and it was pretty much dead even. I was really bummed afterward, because I felt I should have owned this guy. Well come to find out, this guy was a roughneck who got in to barfights every week. He went on to train everyday and enter several non-sanctioned bouts that he did real well in. When I used to see him fight, I would think "Damn, I went toe to toe with that guy, and I held my own." Not bad for a kid that used to run away from fights when he was a kid. But I didn't have the luxury of that perspective when I was fighting him...only long afterward.
My point is that you really have to have perspective. If you are getting owned by everyone, there is a reason. Look at the reasons and see which ones you can do something about.
1) I would recommend asking A LOT of questions. Get up in everyone's pretty little faces and ask them every question about every move that is on your mind. They may think it's annoying at first, but eventually they will see that you're serious -- even if your skills are not up to par. Believe it or not, people will respect that if it's genuine.
2) Work on your mental game as much if not more than your physical. Watch the psycho fighters, the stone cold ones, and the ones people never see coming, and see if there are attributes in their attitude that translate well on the mat. See what adjustments you can make to better make that translation as well.
3) Don't look at each training session as if it were a match. You will have good days and you will have bad days. Everyone does. You don't notice that everyone has bad days, because you are so obsessed with yourself, and when you have one you probably think that it will be a neverending trend. Great athletes try just as hard on bad days, because they know that they're the hardest to get through and it makes them even tougher. If you are having a lot of bad days, and you don't let up, you will become a really strong fighter.
4) Don't let the shit that doesn't matter bother you. So, some dude tapped you in 15 seconds...he's a naturally gifted athlete who's working to be a pro MMA fighter. Good for him. He should be that good.
5) The last thing to remember is the most important. Persistence. Persistence, persistence, persistence. Walt Disney got refused by something like fifty banks before he was finally granted a loan to build DisneyWorld. We look around and we see all this success, and we think it just came to people. It's not true. The guys who are super-good out the gate rarely have what it takes when things get tough down the road. The people who become really successful at anything are the ones who have continued to work at it no matter what. You can be one of those people, because everyone can. There is no pre-requisite.
If it is hard for you to look at things this way, I would recommend doing some reading. "Body Mind Mastery" by Dan Millman is an excellent one. "Thinking Body, Dancing Mind" by Chungliang Al Huang and Jerry Lynch is also good. These books are basically texts on how to better integrate your mental capacity into your game. They offer a lot of really good strategies, techniques, and general help.
Oh, and if you're wondering how it turned out for me. Well, I did get respect from the guys there. They saw that I was dedicated and despite failure after failure I kept coming back. And I kept seeking out how I could be better. And I kept improving. I wasn't a poser. And that's all they really cared about to begin with. If they are dedicated, they don't want to waste their time with people who aren't, and you can't blame them for that. Eventually, I befriended a couple of the instructors and after being there about a year and a half, I started improving dramatically. (Some people just have a longer warming up period than others.) I never became best friends with any of the guys at the gym. And I never beat any of them inside the ring. But I did way more than I should have been able to do considering where I came from; I could stand with these guys that I used to be afraid of. That's much more important. I nenver let up, and at the last gym I was at, I actually had students asking me questions. I'm thinking..."Don't you know who I am? I'm the guy that gets his ass kicked." But not really. Not anymore. I win some and I lose some, but people see that I know what the hell I'm doing. And the only reason is because I cared enough about this activity and about myself to do something about it. You made that first step when you started this thread. It takes a lot of balls to come on to this tough-guy forum and ask what you did. Good for you, and good luck to you.
I learned the old school way. But now I think there should be a place
for those who want to train lightly and not get hurt. Jiu jitsu is called
"the gentle art" for a reason.
I have been teaching our beginner's class and I'm stressing proper
technical training to avoid injuries. So far the class has become very
popular. Sometimes our beginner's class has more people than the
advanced class.
I also let them know if they want to see how 'tough" they are they are
welcome to stick around for the next class.
There is a lot of talk about the watering down our sport as it becomes
more mainstream. There will always be a place for those who want to
go hard, learn how to fight in a cage, and so on. There should also be
a place for those who want to train without getting hurt.
Hi guys. Thanks for all the replies and advice. I checked out the articles as well.
A lot of people advised me to harden up and by sticking it out it will build character and toughness. Believe me, I wish I could just harden up. Unfortunately if I have to suck up too much punishment I quickly get demotivated and depressed. Maybe my mental attitude does suck but it is not so easy to turn that kind of thing around. Anyway I will try and work on that as well
I guess I was kinding of thinking that people can train at different intensities let's say from 1-10. 10 being the most intense full-on training. Now maybe those people who train at level 10 progress the best and reach a certain level the quickest. Now suppose I was to study a bit of jiu-jitsu with the intensity level set to only 5. That would be less stressful and give me more of a chance to increase my mental toughness at a slower rate. Now maybe I only progress at half the rate of those guys who work out at level 10, but I'm still learning something and getting somewhere right? The way I see it is that we each have a different levels of skill and toughness, if we train beyond that level we can feel overwhelmed and stressed, but if we train too far below that level maybe we feel unchallenged or bored. I wasn't suggesting I was scared of a few bruises or didn't want to work against resistance. I just want to progress at a slower pace and not train with people who are careless and not really interested in helping me out. At the moment, I don't even know the basic moves, so I don't think I'm getting a lot out of being crushed, having my neck cranked etc
Anyway I've got nothing to lose from looking around and seeing what else is out there, and trying to find someone maybe a purple belt who will give me some privates, so I think I'll give that a try, and see where it goes from there... If that fails there is always Tai Chi ? Or maybe I can just work on my golf swing !!
Oh and sorry to all those tough guys who work in offices. I didn't mean to imply that all office workers were wimps like me ! To the person who asked how heavy I was I weigh about 160. Most of the other people in the class are in the range 200-240.
Thanks again for the replies.
One other thing is I was thinking of getting some BJJ dvds to try and familiarise myself with the basic techniques. Do you think Saulo Ribeiro series 1 is too advanced? Should I get something like Pedro Carvalho series 1 instead?
Sticking with BJJ would improve your self esteem, which could be the best thing that ever happened to you.
At the moment, I don't even know the basic moves, so I don't think I'm getting a lot out of being crushed, having my neck cranked etc
ask your instructor/training partners to show you some escapes, and watch what they do when they're getting crushed.
one of the first steps in your progression will be to avoid being submitted while you are getting crushed, then you can start working on escaping from bad positions. before you know it, you'll find yourself getting crushed less often, and pretty soon you're the guy imposing your game on your opponent. it's a slow process, that's what makes it so rewarding.
I think that the original poster is going to the wrong school. If you feel like the guys are going hard on you and beating you up, then chances are that they are.
There's place to train bjj where there are normal guys that train hard but are there just to learn and stay in shape. And, they can train hard without overly crushing you and they are aware of how to ramp the intensity up or down depending on the person they are with.
If you stick with it, you'll eventually get to the point that you can roll hard and you won't even realize it.
I suggest you go to another school since this one isn't suited for you. I suggest a bjj school that uses primarily the gi since it seems the no-gi types tend to be the youngish, "hard-ass" types.
If you have no other choices, then I would loiture around the older crew in the school. They can be tough, too, but they are more sensible and sensitive to what their partner needs.
I'd stick with bjj though; judo is great but even in a non-competitive school; getting thrown and practicing the throws is just hard on your body. If you're approaching 40 or so and haven't done much grappling then bjj should appeal to you more than judo training under these circumstances.