BJJ (Gracie) Politics Question

Where does Carlos Gracie sit with respect to the rest of the Gracie family. I'd also like to know how the family, including Carlos, fits in with Gracie Barra. If this isn't too much, I'd also like to know where Marcus Soares (sp) out of Vancouver falls into this frey with respect to anything you can give me about Axis (I believe Rickson's) in Japan.

I know this is somewhat obscure but I understand they are all connected somehow and I'm interested in "how."



carlos gracie jr is very respected within the gracie family. His barrra school is a powerhouse in the bjj scene. If you can get ya hands on the "gracie family" book by kid peligro you can read all about jr and his achievements.

Carlos Sr. taught Helio and their other brothers. Carlos Jr. (so of Carlos Sr.) runs Gracie Barra.

I think Soares is a student of Carlson Gracie Sr., who was also a son of Carlos Sr., and elder brother of Carlos Jr.

Try for listing and trees of the family and many teachers.

read this interviw about soares.

it has been written that helio never took a jiu-jitu lesson from carlos sr. i guess the only people who would know are helio's brothers.

suposidly he never took a lesson, but i also hear the gracies dont even know how many yrs carlos sr learned from maeda. How the hell could they not know that.

ninja please.

Carlos Jr is Carlos Sr 10 th son out of 12 I believe. He was born in 1956.He trained under Rolls and then Rickson after Rolls death. He founded Gracie Barra in the early 1980's and has produced more Black Belts than anybody but Carlson. He founded the CBJJ to try to get BJJ into the olympics. SOme people feel his tournaments are overpriced and he is overly concerned with making money. Recently he set up standards and time requirements for the various belts including demoting himself from 7 th degree Black to 6 th degree Black because he didnt meet the time req for 7 th degree. OUtside of Helio and Rorion I dont think anyone does more for the sport.

Axis Japan is affiliated with Rickson, and is on VERY friendly terms with BTT. Also Renzo and cousins train there when in Tokyo, so there can't be too much bad blood with Gracie Barra for Taka switchig over to join Ricksons group.

I can olny say that Taka is one of the nicest persons. If you have a chance, go and train there.

Helio is considered the founder of Gracie JJ but in truth he shares that foundation with Carlos; they developed it together.  Carlos Jr. founded Gracie Barra and has since helped to train other Gracie family members and many other fighters and grapplers to date.  He is extremely well respected in the Brazilian community, within his family and in the fight world.     

"Recently he set up standards and time requirements for the various belts including demoting himself from 7 th degree Black to 6 th degree Black because he didnt meet the time req for 7 th degree."

Thats pretty un selfish and cool of him to support his own desicion by example

Guys, I have a few questions please. What I'm beginning to believe from all the threads here, is that there are 2 rival factions in the Gracie family. Is that correct? I remember someone mentioning on another thread how Rorion stabbed Carlson or Carlos in the back in a tv interview. If I am correct in this, how serious is this "split" in the family? What Rorion did was pretty dirty after all. If you go to you can see the family tree. Is the split between the top half and the bottom half.

I wanna know the same shit as MMANHBFAN. If you're new to some city where there are possibly two rival Gracie camps, how do you know where to go and how political will it get? I'm really ignorant on the Gracie family other than Helio is the top dog etc. but there is considerable bad blood between the different factions and that's what I'm interested in learning about. You're not gonna find that in a book.

Helio is the top dog in his faction. On the other side there is Carlson or Carlos I believe. I did see Rickson in Renzo's camp in the docu Fight Day. And Renzo and Royler have a book out together on technique. I believe Renzo is in one faction and Rickson and Royler are in another faction.

Someone please fill my empty head with Gracie family politics!!!

Outside of Brazil I wouldn't worry about it, over here in the London we have a pretty big Barra school and theres a Carlson school too, everyone is competitive but theres zero bad blood.

Inside Brazil, I couldn't tell you but I'd guess it's the same.

One thing that happened is that Rorion tried to copyright the Gracie JiuJitsu name for his own attempts at making money from it.  That insulted some members of the family but I am not able to speculate how deep the wounds were or even if they are still there.  

Can anyone else add to this?

Thanks guys.

The split might be less than what I thought. Maybe there was a prob yrs ago, but I just saw Shockwave 2003 and Ryan was in Royce's camp along with Royler. I thought Rayn was in the other faction. Ryan carries Royce on his shoulders after Royce destroyed Yoshida and Royce leaned down and kissed Ryan. I believe they are cousins.