BJJ is simple. Why is is so hard to learn?

m.g -
I think this is because women, generally speaking, are much more in tune with their own bodies.



totally agree! I've been a women's self-defense instructor for 15 years. The women end up picking up solid BJJ fundamentals a lot quicker and better in one weekend than the guys I see in BJJ class, who train several times a week for years.

I taught my daughter the entire game of chess in one afternoon when she was 5 or 6.

Chess masters cannot do any single move that she cannot also perform. They cannot make their bishops move straight or their rooks move diagonally.

Why are they better than she?

It's not hard to learn. Anyone who puts their mat time in will learn. It's just that we're such a selfish culture we expect immediate return on anything we invest in and you're not going to get good at BJJ in a year. Give it five, patiently, and then come back.

I gave it 5.

I still sucked.

So I've come back for the second five.

Four years into that... hope the next year is good to me, otherwise I'm onto the 15 year back-up plan!

BenBJJ - I gave it 5.

I still sucked.

So I've come back for the second five.

Four years into that... hope the next year is good to me, otherwise I'm onto the 15 year back-up plan!

That post was addressed to newbies. I don't think five gets you good, but it gets you competent.

^^^^That is the case for any sport/physical activity. So in that regard Bjj isn't really that much different from any other sport/physical activity.

I think Hillary makes an excellent point! I think too many people in the American culture expect immediate results. I also think many people in the American culture want something for nothing or, at least, for the smallest amount of time, energy and effort. I mean alot of people will complain about not being very good at a given activity while at the same time putting in very little effort, or worse, misdirected, thoughtless and unproductive effort.

I think learning and mastering Bjj is no different than learning and mastering basketball or soccer or volleyball. It does take time. It won't happen right away or overnight. But it can be done. If young kids can learn it so can adults.

Similar to striking, you can demonstrate and practice on a bag or pads but it all changes when your target is also playing the game.

I know many techniques that I can demonstrate on a submissive uki but could almost never pull off in rolling.

Same goes for sparring in the stand up game.

Experience in application. Phone Post

Spent 10 years trying to learn bjj and mma and always learning.

Hargreaves - 

and even turned down a stripe lol.

This shit makes me so mad. Why? To look cool? To sad bag? To disrespect the fact that your instructor knows a whole lot freaking more than you?

nope Hillary at the time I just did not feel on that level nothing more than that.

It's not your decision, do you not understand that? Someone dedicated their lives to become your instructor one day and you turn it down because you think you know better? STFU.

ya that was a couple years back now and yes i was told that it was not my decision
no big thing regret it now.

I think a lot of it is the fact that normal people have never had hip movement be so important. And honestly it takes a while to even learn how to use them. That combined with the complexity of the unlimited ways your body can mesh with another one in a grappling scenario. Is why it takes so long.

"It's not your decision, do you not understand that? Someone dedicated their lives to become your instructor one day and you turn it down because you think you know better? STFU"

Dedicated their lives? It's a sport they are good at and enjoy, it's not as though they are dedicated to free cancer research or feeding starving children. Beyond that they are just a person with an opinion, and we are free to disagree with them. We pay them for a service, this is not a master/apprentice relationship from feudal Japan.

Everyone knows people who have been promoted early when they couldn't hang at the next level and we've all known people held back, even when they are obviously at the next level, all based on an instructors opinion. Once again they are just people, just as fallible and subject to moods and bias as anyone.

Thank God for guys like Roy Dean who set clear standards and expectations.

"STFU"
That's just rude.

John Frankl - I taught my daughter the entire game of chess in one afternoon when she was 5 or 6.

Chess masters cannot do any single move that she cannot also perform. They cannot make their bishops move straight or their rooks move diagonally.

Why are they better than she?

I see where you guys are coming from and I agree that it is their prerogative to promote or not promote whoever they wish.
Where I differ is that during those times students deserve an explanation and advice. "Yes you are on par with all the purples/browns/blacks...but your escapes are weak and you need more variety in your passing"..or "hey I know you don't feel ready, but with your dedication and well rounded game, you'll see I was right, just work on your sweeps a bit and you'll be fine".

My point is simply that the days of instructors being beyond question and giving vague answers are over. We pay them to get us from white to black. Yes it's a long road but there is no reason for an instructor to not give clear expectations and standard for what they want to see at each level.

Munk - 
Dedicated their lives? It's a sport they are good at and enjoy, it's not as though they are dedicated to free cancer research or feeding starving children. Beyond that they are just a person with an opinion, and we are free to disagree with them. We pay them for a service, this is not a master/apprentice relationship from feudal Japan.


Take some time to learn where some of the instructors have come from. My roommates in Brazil live off a household (three of them) income each month of US $400 and have, in several occasions in their lives, had to choose between a tournament money and food money. Some Brazilians need Jiu Jitsu as their ticket out of whatever bad situation they were in (Finfou is a great example of this), and yes, they've been through hell and back so that they can finally get a return on investment when they become instructors one day.

You said it "WE PAY THEM" for a service. Exactly. You recognize your instructor's expertise in an area that you suck at. Your rank is your "grade" in the class. Now, I'm only in my fifth year of higher education, but not once have I been able to disagree with a professor on my grade because I didn't feel it was quite right.

Munk -
Everyone knows people who have been promoted early when they couldn't hang at the next level and we've all known people held back, even when they are obviously at the next level, all based on an instructors opinion. Once again they are just people, just as fallible and subject to moods and bias as anyone.

Thank God for guys like Roy Dean who set clear standards and expectations.


A standard is impossible. It is a human to human interaction sport and standards are not okay. You are not going to be able to expect a 300 pound, 45 year old man trying to get his life together to perform at the same technical level as a 20 year old who works a part time job to train all day. It's just not gonna happen. Some things aren't physically possible, some things just aren't possible with the person's lifestyle. You don't want to discourage a non competitor who is trying his best and truly learning; you don't want to promote a competitor until he is not only competent at the next level but also competitive (which would put him at the upper end of that belt by the time he actually gets promoted).

Roy Dean can have his opinion, and I can have mine. But what do I know, I'm not from Canada.

In regards to your roomie story, it's irrelevant to the main point. I'm happy to see anyone succeed and overcome, it still doesn't place them in a position where they can't be questioned does it?

Yes they know more and so they should be able to convey the why and how along with their decision.

It sounds as though you've been fortunate to have a great instructor that you deeply respect. But there are many poor instructors as well. I don't think it's asking too much for an instructor to give guidance, advice and reasons along the way. "Because I said so" just doesn't cut it for me.

A REASONABLE standard is completely possible, saying all students must win a certain number of tournaments is not. I'm simply talking about a basic curriculum that a student should be able to explain and execute at each level to evidence proficiency. Giving the student a clear pathway to know what they need to work on for the next level is far more encouraging that just leaving them to wade in a sea of a million techniques and a moving target.

Hillary - It's not your decision, do you not understand that? Someone dedicated their lives to become your instructor one day and you turn it down because you think you know better? STFU.


Wow. Shitty attitude. Dude is not murdering kittens. Settle down.

I was overly irritable with him simply because it was the straw that broke the camel's back as he is the dozenth or so person I've seen with that same claim within two days.



I just think it's a super shitty attitude for anyone to have. So you get promoted before you think you're ready? SO WHAT? Will your ego really be that crushed from getting beaten today by the same people the week before you got the belt? It doesn't matter, you'll get beaten up before and after, the belt doesn't have magical powers. Just take it when he feels you're ready and keep learning. And he even said a STRIPE. It's a piece of meaningless tape!



Munk, my roommates was not referring to not questioning them. It was referring to you disrespecting the fact that some people really do dedicate their lives to it. I never once told the guy, "Just blindly listen to whatever he says!" I just said to shut up and take rank (as in don't refuse, not don't ask criteria) because he probably earned it. I don't use stripes and I've only given one blue belt, but I know how proud I was to watch him and see him at a good level to move to blue belt. I know it's just a business to some people here but I am passionate about Jiu Jitsu and my technique was hard earned, so I consider it personally valuable. I'm trusting my students to represent my name well, and I'm trusting them with what I know. I was really happy to give him the belt, and I would have been crushed and furious if he'd have refused it. If I'd have really paid attention to his detail and helped him improve, then have him act as if he knows better than me. It would suck, and I hate to hear people think that's okay.



I never said don't question; I'm really not even sure WHY you're arguing that. I am a huge advocate of asking lots of questions to your instructors, I wrote an article on it, I bug the hell out of my coaches with questions, and I always encourage my students to ask as well. So don't argue when there isn't an argument.



I was disagreeing with your pompous attitude of "I pay, I choose." You are paying for INSTRUCTION, not rank. Regardless of rank, you can participate in classes. Having a purple belt on doesn't make your triangle magically better, you could keep a white belt forever and be just fine.