wiggum - Damien Maia is the one who comes to mind right away. He isn't a great pure wrestler, but he found his way to two excellent shots for MMA - his deep head inside and head outside singles. It wasn't great pure wrestling since he didn't really finish right away. Instead, his deep shots forced a "grappling" match and even if he landed in half guard, he found his way to top position.
Jake Shields wrestled, but is mainly thought of as BJJ player. His wrestling is very good.
People like Tonon have found ways to make wrestling work for them, but they aren’t ‘great wrestlers.’ But they have functional takedown skills.
Buchecha isn’t a great wrestler, but he is so strong that he hulk smashes people to the mat.
In general, you’re more likely to find wrestlers with high level BJJ than BJJ players with high level wrestling.
Jake Shields was a wrestler long before he was a submission grappler. He did very well in competitive wrestling. He outwrestled Hendo when they fought years ago.
Agreed. That’s why I started by saying he wrestled. That’s his background. AJ Azagaram is similar. He’s now a BJJ guy, but he wrestled at Ohio State.
wiggum - ^^I might come back and write a long post on why wrestling--> BJJ is probably easier than BJJ--> wrestling. But I'll start by saying the transition is easier.
I’d really like to read this if you get around to it. I always enjoy your perspective
<span class="User-170554" id="userPost61954525">In general, you're more likely to find wrestlers with high level BJJ than BJJ players with high level wrestling.</span></blockquote>
Can't disagree with you, but that might change in the future with BJJ becoming more popular in the US and other countries with more wrestling tradition.
Unfortunately, wrestling is never going to get big here, but it is definitely more popular than 15 years ago when I trained for a little bit.
Wrestle. Even in bjj. If your club has the room, start on your feet and force yourself to wrestle. Don’t pull guard. Wrestle them to the ground or wrestle them to try to not get taken down.
Do you think someone can develop solid fundamentals by simply constantly trying to force the take down and shooting during BJJ class?
Can you recommend any YouTube channels or maybe outside help that can help out my BJJ game?
And thanks man, you're always a help.
Does your training school have any wrestling classes/coaches? Take some dedicated classes just for wrestling and practice what King Trav said: work for takedowns and control, none of that flopping and pulling guard. You are still young so you can develop a good skillset in wrestling that will supplement your BJJ.
Nope. The gym I just signed up for is pretty high profile, unfortunately it's super Brazilian. No wrestling coaches in sight.
Any alternatives? Could I potentially develop a decent power double by just forcing the takedown all the time in BJJ?
The school wrestling season is just wrapping up here. All the kids who wrestled are coming back to our kids’ jiujitsu and wrecking the kids who didn’t wrestle. Ha!
Marcelo Garcia would make a toy out of all those Wrestlers. Like he did with Shields, Askren, etc.
But yes I agree. Wrestling is an amazing discipline
Marcelo destroyed those guys in his sport.
They would destroy Marcelo in their sport.
Marcelo would likely get takedowns against middling wrestlers. And Shields and Askren would destroy all but the most elite submission grapplers.
ausgepicht - Few, but I'm sure many BJJers will mention a bunch.
But those names will be added by BJJers - who know very little about wrestling. Most fans and BJJers incorrectly think that wrestling is having a few doubles and single while woefully ignoring the sheer variety of takedowns, control ties, turns, breakdowns, and par terre wrestling which is as deep and complex as the guard is to BJJ.
It’s like fish talking about other fish they know that can climb trees very well.
I’m not sorry if my facts hurt your feelings. Deal.
Doesn’t hurt my feelings at all, what’s the best way for a novice level BJJ player (who’s still young) to really maximize his wrestling capability within the confines of BJJ and even outside BJJ?
Well, not sure which country you live based on your screenname, but most cities, larger towns in America as well as universities, have wrestling clubs. Just ask to join in.
It’ll improve every aspect of your grappling - not just your technical knowledge, but the work ethic that takes place in a wrestling room will transform how you train. You’ll learn some great drills that will help your fundamentals too.
The school wrestling season is just wrapping up here. All the kids who wrestled are coming back to our kids’ jiujitsu and wrecking the kids who didn’t wrestle. Ha!
Marcelo Garcia would make a toy out of all those Wrestlers. Like he did with Shields, Askren, etc.
But yes I agree. Wrestling is an amazing discipline
wow he would beat HS kids How about put Garcia in freestyle Olympic trials he would get beaten worse than anyonein the tourney and tech falled and or pinned by the worst guy in his weight
Wrestle. Even in bjj. If your club has the room, start on your feet and force yourself to wrestle. Don’t pull guard. Wrestle them to the ground or wrestle them to try to not get taken down.
The school wrestling season is just wrapping up here. All the kids who wrestled are coming back to our kids’ jiujitsu and wrecking the kids who didn’t wrestle. Ha!
Marcelo Garcia would make a toy out of all those Wrestlers. Like he did with Shields, Askren, etc.
But yes I agree. Wrestling is an amazing discipline
wow he would beat HS kids How about put Garcia in freestyle Olympic trials he would get beaten worse than anyonein the tourney and tech falled and or pinned by the worst guy in his weight
Lol I was joking about beating the kids. Yes he would get outwrestled in the Olympic trials, but with his extensive BJJ knowledge, do you think he will be pinned (talking about guys in his weight)?
<span class="User-170554" id="userPost61954525">In general, you're more likely to find wrestlers with high level BJJ than BJJ players with high level wrestling.</span></blockquote>
Can't disagree with you, but that might change in the future with BJJ becoming more popular in the US and other countries with more wrestling tradition.
Unfortunately, wrestling is never going to get big here, but it is definitely more popular than 15 years ago when I trained for a little bit.
Wrestling is huge in certain regions. It’s important to remember that the US is consistently one of the world’s great wrestling powers and won the 2017 world championships.
For reasons I’ll articulate later, I think the infrastructure of the sports help lead to wrestling’s dominance. Wrestling is a scholastic sport where training is 2.5 hours a day, every day, at a minimum. BJJ simply doesn’t have that at near the same level. Kids who do BJJ are usually going 3-4 times a week.
ausgepicht - Few, but I'm sure many BJJers will mention a bunch.
But those names will be added by BJJers - who know very little about wrestling. Most fans and BJJers incorrectly think that wrestling is having a few doubles and single while woefully ignoring the sheer variety of takedowns, control ties, turns, breakdowns, and par terre wrestling which is as deep and complex as the guard is to BJJ.
It’s like fish talking about other fish they know that can climb trees very well.
I’m not sorry if my facts hurt your feelings. Deal.
You’re 100% right so nobody should be offended imo… the big 10 championships were just on, and i was actually thinking that to myself. The little things that can make a wrestler great, the countless number of moves and counters is just aa complex as any sport. Its not a battle of strength like many think
The school wrestling season is just wrapping up here. All the kids who wrestled are coming back to our kids’ jiujitsu and wrecking the kids who didn’t wrestle. Ha!
Marcelo Garcia would make a toy out of all those Wrestlers. Like he did with Shields, Askren, etc.
But yes I agree. Wrestling is an amazing discipline
Marcelo destroyed those guys in his sport.
They would destroy Marcelo in their sport.
Marcelo would likely get takedowns against middling wrestlers. And Shields and Askren would destroy all but the most elite submission grapplers.
I agree. I admire Shields and Askren because they have supplemented their great wrestling backgrounds with good BJJ skills. I also agree that the transition from wrestler to BJJ is smoother than BJJ to wrestler (this is coming from a non wrestler).
To develop good fundamentals you need to drill good fundamentals. So no, just shooting shit shots isn’t going to make you a good wrestler.
If you don’t have a wrestling coach and want one, join a wrestling club. If you don’t want to, or don’t have that sort of access find someone at your club who seems to know wrestling and pick their brain. Watch videos and make friends with someone who will stay after class or come in Saturday’s to drill stuff.
Then you practice during sparring. Get stuck under guys’ sprawls and fail a million times. It’s only practice. You’re not losing. That’s what I mean by just wrestle to get better.
One of my buddies (who’s a really good wrestler too) was just making fun of me today because he says he doesn’t think he’s ever seen me pull guard. I’ll go down, but I won’t go down without a fight.
But that’s only my opinion, and there’s a lot of very qualified men chiming in here with some great advice. I’d listen to them.
Also learn the single. Doubles look cool, but the single leg is the shizzz.
I have found that BJJ guys who dedicate time to learning the single tend to find more success against good wrestlers than BJJ guys who spend all of their time on doubles. IMO this is in part because of the similarities between good half-guard work and single leg finishes.
You don’t find GSPs - nonwrestlers who develop world class doubles - in pure grappling. It’s really hard to hit. GSP sets up his doubles with strikes and his opponents aren’t in wrestling stances. Marcelo was right in focusing his wrestling on single legs.
Also learn the single. Doubles look cool, but the single leg is the shizzz.
I have found that BJJ guys who dedicate time to learning the single tend to find more success against good wrestlers than BJJ guys who spend all of their time on doubles. IMO this is in part because of the similarities between good half-guard work and single leg finishes.
You don’t find GSPs - nonwrestlers who develop world class doubles - in pure grappling. It’s really hard to hit. GSP sets up his doubles with strikes and his opponents aren’t in wrestling stances. Marcelo was right in focusing his wrestling on single legs.
I’ll also add that in my journey in BJJ and MMA, I have literally only found one person who could use judo well against my wrestling.
This isn’t a slight against judo. It’s a fantastic discipline. But it was meant for the gi. There are brilliant ways to incorporate judo into wrestling and high level judoka and wrestlers can do it. But for most BJJ guys who are trying to do nogi, it’s not the best use of their time IMO.
Also learn the single. Doubles look cool, but the single leg is the shizzz.
I have found that BJJ guys who dedicate time to learning the single tend to find more success against good wrestlers than BJJ guys who spend all of their time on doubles. IMO this is in part because of the similarities between good half-guard work and single leg finishes.
You don’t find GSPs - nonwrestlers who develop world class doubles - in pure grappling. It’s really hard to hit. GSP sets up his doubles with strikes and his opponents aren’t in wrestling stances. Marcelo was right in focusing his wrestling on single legs.
Maia's wrestling has kinda been exposed imo. His cardio is a big part of it but he looks very bad against wrestlers (Colby/woodley) and even in ones he won (laflare) just spamming telegraphed shots over and over. He is great on top but not good at getting it there from a takedown. Very good sweeps and clinch is decent. He hit a great throw on Chael but Chael is 100% forward pressure and susceptible to techniques like that
Yeah. That’s my reasoning behind the single. It’s easier to get to (especially vs nom wrestlers) and it’s very versatile.
When I get doubles, it tends to be in a chain that starts with a single, and single legging guys out of half guard to get up works well against most anyone.
Singles are are also great because you don’t get stuck under people and smooshed when you fail like you see so often when bjj guysjust shoot for doubles.
To develop good fundamentals you need to drill good fundamentals. So no, just shooting shit shots isn’t going to make you a good wrestler.
If you don’t have a wrestling coach and want one, join a wrestling club. If you don’t want to, or don’t have that sort of access find someone at your club who seems to know wrestling and pick their brain. Watch videos and make friends with someone who will stay after class or come in Saturday’s to drill stuff.
Then you practice during sparring. Get stuck under guys’ sprawls and fail a million times. It’s only practice. You’re not losing. That’s what I mean by just wrestle to get better.
One of my buddies (who’s a really good wrestler too) was just making fun of me today because he says he doesn’t think he’s ever seen me pull guard. I’ll go down, but I won’t go down without a fight.
But that’s only my opinion, and there’s a lot of very qualified men chiming in here with some great advice. I’d listen to them.
Thanks man, I'll keep it in mind.
And for sure, my single is hardly elite by any stretch of the imagination, but I want to develop a solid grasp of all the fundamentals.