"It really is a different game."
It is yeah, but it's not like comparing Tennis and Synchronized swimming now is it.
Gi BJJ is close to no-gi BJJ. Any teacher worth his salt should know the change in grips for both types of rolling. Again, it's very good to actually see the difference in training both, and the best was is too... Train both. Ausbjj is very correct about no-gi escapes. It feels good at the time because, your escaping, but long term you'll be hurting yourself.
It is yeah, but it's not like comparing Tennis and Synchronized swimming now is it.
True, but how well your game translates to no-gi depends on your style. I know guys that have a really good sleeve grip/spider guard or De La Riva style game that have a lot of problems when they take the gi off.
TexasThai
"wont training both, slow me down, or take longer to learn the art?"
Yes, the more you study the longer it will take. You gotta look at your reasons for training. If you want to take people down in the street, learning no gi will have to happen because folks don't always walk around wrapped in big, sturdy pieces of cotton.
If you want to be an Olympic Judo gold medallist, no gi training would probably be a waste of time.
"the one thing i dont want to do is mess up the greatness that the art is"
Ok, this strikes me as a little bit awestruck. Let's be realistic. Greatness? The "art" is just a body of knowledge surrounding a physical skill. If you treat it like that you will avoid a great deal of trouble.
"or get confused and im sure just starting out i will be confused, so how do i know which one to start with and how long to switch?"
Trust your instincts. Find trustworthy, knowledgable people who know what they are talking about to watch you do your thing and ask them their honest opinions. Then figure out how to adapt their advice to your physical skills.
"or should it be where one session i do gi, the next session no gi?? but again cant that end up being more than i need to lear at one time?"
Maybe. Maybe not. Everyone learns stuff differently. You might be able to keep it straight, you might not. Experiment.
Mark
I think it all depends where you are at. Ive seen bjj school were the students weren't all that great at groundfighting and judo schools where they are. The last judo school I went to had a crapload of blackbelts that were at purple belt bjj level (and judo brown belts at that level too) and higher. The only difference is that they were more explosive and went for the sub or pin a lot harder and faster. I just don't accept the whitebelt tapping browns all the time crap. Ive been doing bjj for a long time and judo for about a year and I can say that there are judo guys that are powerhouses on the mat. Newaza isnt that easy, but it should be fun for bjjers, trust me there is a lot we can learn from judo groundwork (like pin control, speed, power, base, top game, reversals, takedowns from knees, etc). Just ask Royce what he thinks about Neil Adams armlock?
Some groundfighting judokas to watch: Kashiwazaki, Okano, Yamashita, and Pedro (I heard Inoue has good newaza too and dont even get me started on some of the Russians and their freaky matskills).
Some bjjers with cool stand up: Jacare, Camarillo, Terere, Paixao, Saulo, and Cleber.
Study everything, dont worry about what is better, because there are guys in both arts that can both throw you on your ass and submit you without too much of a problem.
guys, everyone has been more the helpful, trust me your posts and info you have shared will not go un noted!
thank you sincerely.
TT
"True, but how well your game translates to no-gi depends on your style."
That's also a good point... I guess because I do like MMA so much and train with no-gi a lot, many of my techniques are basically used for both, like arm wraps for instance.
Messing around with De La Riva guard and spider guard I guess for one don't really interest me (that flowery group of techniques doesn't do much for me) and are really most effectve at higher ranks when there are smaller gaps between the skill of the competitors and a technique can be a crucial difference.
I've never really trained at a 100% sport school. Every tech I learn and teach I also get/give the 'realistic' applcation of the move.
Hey all a lot of times it doesn't matter what art you train in. I've been training in Hapkido for 11 years and i'm ranked number 2 in the midwest (according to RANKED.com in grappling) for my division (No-Gi Teens advanced) a lot of it just has to do with who your instructor is and and the way you train.I beat the kid who was ranked #1 and i haven't ever stepped foot in a Jiu Jitsu class.... just goes to show that there is still room for variety in the sport.
boyoben i can apprecaite that, i will be training with William Bittencourt and from what i hear he's pretty damn good instructor....i love learning and have an unbelievable learning curve so i hope you are right.
TT
ban
This actually hasn't degraded into a pissing match just yet socal, let's see who starts the hostilities.
I wrote:
"If you want to take people down in the street, learning no gi will have to happen because folks don't always walk around wrapped in big, sturdy pieces of cotton."
Zero Horizon answered:
"They don't walk around in rash guards and fight shorts, either. Any type of coat and long pants mimics a gi nicely."
Airspeed added:
"Walk down the street in my neighborhood. (in Ontario)
I can assure you that everyone is wearing a heavy jacket.
On the other hand, I have never once seen anyone walking down my street in a pink speedo."
Ok. What I meant was, in gi or no-gi competitions what the other guy is wearing is guaranteed. Self defense training offers no such guarantees, you need to be able to adapt to both heavy and light clothing.
Mark
a bjj v judo thread and everyone has been pretty polite? this has to be a record......
nice thread all
NOTE:
If you are training for sport BJJ with Gi, then it makes sense to do judo on the side to help with your standup/takedowns (as many of the top BJJs guys have been doing for years),
But if you are training for BJJ or sub-grappling without the gi, it makes much more sense to do some wrestling.
"This actually hasn't degraded into a pissing match just yet socal, let's see who starts the hostilities."
Dont worry, Your Bitch will be here soon talking about how Karo is actually BJJ because a BJJ once rolled at his club or how Fedor is actually BJJ because he developed a strategy in preparing to fight Mino, ha!
Seriously, though, there are some new people round here that may actually be curious as to whats the differences are and have general questions. Thats perfectly legit and refreshing aslong as the trolls and purists on both sides dont start poppin off the usual shit.
Yeah well, I'm sure equally we'll have MAf come on and talk about the total impracticalities of BJJ too.
I wouldn't back up YF on either Karo or Fedor's background. They're Judo guys first IMO.