Today I had the opportunity to train with a very good Judo black belt. He can throw me at will, but once on the ground I was shocked at how easily I could beat him. I submitted him several times in just a couple of minutes. The first couple of times he rolled to turtle and tucked in tight, I was like "what are you doing?" Anyway, I'm your average joe purple belt (bjj). He really surprised me, I've heard this, but didn't think it was true. I've had a harder time w/some white belts. I'm not dogging Judo at all, I love it. I'm just shocked and disappointed that their ground games aren't better. Black Bart
FYI: 10 years ago just called and wants its thread back.
Black Bart is no purple belt talking like that...
mr. adam laclair has just ipponed the correct...
"I'm just shocked and disappointed that their ground games aren't better."{
He's probably thinking the same about your standup.
"I can't believe this guy trains "grappling" and is so pathetic at staying on his feet, which is such an important part of the positional dominance he prides his bjj on!"
leclair is right on in his statement!
solution: go fight more judo guys and your opinion will change..
how can you make an overall assumption with just a few samples
On of my students very good BJJ white belt (close to blue) went to another country in Europe an trained with Judo black belts ,in stand up they killed him, threw him easy on the ground he tapped out all the black belts..
It only makes sense. They spend probably 80% of their training time doing standup, 20% groundwork. That means you must have been doing 5 years of judo to equal 1 year of BJJ. By the same token, most BJJ gyms do less than 10% standup, so they suck on their feet by a similar or even greater margin. Of course, percentages vary by gym, some Judo clubs do more matwork, some are probably almost exclusively standup.
Did you hear about the recent judo rules change? They allow more matwork now!!!
BTW... it's not only training time... there has grown also a lack of (newaza )knowledge and training methods in judo due to the rules.
"there has grown also a lack of (newaza )knowledge and training methods in judo due to the rules."
-there has grown also a lack of tachi waza knowledge and training methods in BJJ due to the rules.
Well you could also argue that judo tachi waza is a bit off the "realistic" stuff, but of course one can also make the same argument against some type of bjj players.
"-there has grown also a lack of tachi waza knowledge and training methods in BJJ due to the rules."
No, it was there from the start.
And your point is?
My point is the same as Adam's and Bull's...
"Today I had the opportunity to train with a very good Judo black belt. He
can throw me at will, but once on the ground I was shocked at how easily
I could beat him."
Yes,but if he could throw you at will,on concrete you would not be able to
continue on the ground and beat him because you would be KTFO,so
make sure you continue fighting him on Mats and not a parking lot.
cgjj wins the stupidest post on this thread award.
Jorx,
I can only assume you are training sport Jiu Jitsu for fun and fitness or
perhaps competition and have decided not to use your training for self
defence.
I think the BJJ and Judo (mind that this is not vs. inbetween) discussion is still valid.
Honestly, I have never heard of BJJ blackbelt who was easy to throw around (esp. by a Judo blue- or even brownbelt). Yet I keep hearing about Judo blackbelts being submitted by BJJ blues and purples.
So there is a different belt system...
Alright guys, I left myself WAY open on this one. Thanks for the brutal beat down, I deserve it.
I understand this has been debated and argued here and everywhere else for 10+ years. I've just never had the opportunity to see it for myself. While standing up, I was keeping my hips way back, almost bent over. Whenever I came in, I was countered and subsequently ended up on the mat. The only thing I could effectively do was pull guard. I want to learn the throws, that's why I'm training Judo. My Bjj training over the last 6+ years has been exclusively grappling w/very limited stand up. Bull_in_chinashop, You are probably right, that's the opinion I would have, in his shoes. DonMega, that's exactly my experience. Ron Mexico, thanks for your educated opinion and for not taking the opportunity to give me more lashes. My back hurts... Black Bart
You would probably tap an olympic wrestler in the same amount of time in practice, but that doesn't mean you would beat him in a fight.
You must remember, you would probably be on the bottom, getting punched in the face.
A BlackBelt in Judo is much quicker to attain than a BlackBelt in BJJ.
The first Dan in Judo is considered a beginning,not an example of
excellence like a BJJ Blackbelt.
At a decent Judo club you will find as much of a gulf between different
blackbelts skills (standing & ground) as you would between
Blue's,Purple's,Browns and Blacks at a decent BJJ Club.
In my experience,yes some Judo Black Belts have very poor groundwork
but the guys who fight in competitions at BlackBelt level are usually
O.K. on the ground and the guys who are at National or International
Level are very good on the ground.
Some of the international level Judo Blackbelts i have sparred with
would attain a BlackBelt in BJJ very quickly (like less than a year) if they
swapped sports.
There is a coach in the U.K. whose students are known for viciously
good groundwork-his name is Neil Adams.
I would assume that in the U.S. you may find the same phenomenon
with Gene Le Bell's students.
Judo Players groundwork has a few elements that BJJ players could
learn from-The speed they work at is hard to deal with,they also try to
inflict pain throughout a move so the submission is actually a relief for
their opponent and competition Judo guys conditioning is second to
none as they are training to reach the olympics in a huge talent pool
and if you are not fit,you're not getting there.
Black Bart-
Well done for starting Judo training,i have found it has really helped my
Jiu Jitsu in many more ways than just my stand up and i just wish i had
started sooner.Give it a year and you will really see a change in your
game.