BKFC fighter Justin Thornton dies after suffering knockout loss at BKFC 20

IMO, the issue isn’t with getting licensed, the issue is with poor matchmaking. He beat 6 guys, and is likely the toughest dude at his gym. The problem is, he’s been brought in way too many times as the sacrificial lamb. If he was fighting other guys with similar abilities, he’d likely be fine…but he’s fighting dudes who are stopping him early in the first round over and over.

Dude had 11 losses in under 2 minutes, yet was matched with a guy who is 11-1, with 2 KOs in BKFC, who also knocked this dude out in a minute when they fought 8 years ago?

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Perhaps it’s the athletic commission that sanctions the fights that needs to also get tuned up a bit.

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Local MMA is a really interesting place. I used to work as a matchmaker (among other things) for local shows, and there’s very little $ in it for anyone…not the promoters, the fighters or the athletic commissions. I’m not sure where the blame lies. Some of these matchmakers are making $1000 a show to set up fights between guys who make $200-300 each, and the athletic commission are all volunteers…with the commission getting 2-3% of the live gate, which might be $30K for some of these shows, so they generate like $1000 in tax money for the state.

It’s really hard to “blame” any of the guys involved there…tough to expect a guy making $1000 to properly weigh all the risks, or the volunteer commissioners for not taking a super hard look at it. It’s tough with local MMA, because with so little $ involved, some people don’t take it seriously. I think they should, but I get why the guys working for free aren’t going over the fight cards with a fine toothed comb.

As for the bigger shows like BKFC? Yeah, they should be scrutinized more…however, when they go to random states to hold events, they’re running into these small, volunteer commissions who run less than 10 events a year and don’t really know what’s going on.

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Completely agree . It happens on the regional scenes all the time for fighters to build records.

I had a close friend fight in Gladiator Challenge, but after he already fought in multiple major MMA organizations, he needed some wins, so before his fight his opponents coach came to him and asked him “can you please take him down and submit him, please don’t KO him”. I don’t know why the guy even took the fight. Put my friend in a weird spot too. He ended up hitting him with a strong 1-2 and shot a takedown and immediately submitted him.

Also look into Xplode FC out of San Diego. Some of the worst mismatches I’ve ever seen in my life.

Fighting is barbaric. I’m surprised this doesn’t happen way more often

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They’ve only been around since 2018, but have already had one death and one coma. This seems to be the most dangerous combat sport by far.

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The issue is that it’s highly concussive with fewer safety protocols than MMA.

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I actually read something from Mike Mizulli (guessing I’m spelling that wrong) from the ABC, and I agree with him, and it changed my opinion a bit here. The issue is partly matchmaking, but another MAJOR issue is that they’re recycling aging and declining talent over and over.

Look at some of their champions…Lombard for example, is 43 years old and lost his last 6 MMA fights in a row, with 3 of those being KO/TKO. The guy can still crack obviously, but he’s 43 and was clearly on the decline. They were talking about signing Diego Sanchez. If there’s a guy that doesn’t need any more punches to the head, it’s Diego.

Johnny Hendricks went to BKFC after losing 5 of 6 fights, with his one win being over Lombard.

BKFC isn’t signing highly sought after free agents at the peak of their career, they’re signing guys the other big orgs don’t want because they’re typically old and on a losing streak.

I think if they consistently book fights between guys that fit into that category, there will be more and more BAD knockouts, and more and more bad outcomes. They’re not doing exhibitions with big gloves, they’re removing the gloves entirely.

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His fall was similar to Dominick Reyes’ recent KO loss when he spiked his head, and the Vera-Eilers KO back in the day. Scary as hell

Bare Knuckle boxing is much older than MMA. Just new in the USA.

The issue is matchmaking

Pre-glove, no round old school bare knuckle would be unrecognizable to us. It’d be mostly clinching and bodywork for like hours sometimes lol. Those guys had to treat their hands with relative kid gloves if they wanted to last. No effective orthopedic hand surgeries then. Setting still wasn’t a sound science and your hand is so complex and delicate anyway, it didn’t really matter. A broken hand could end your career and hurt your ability to work post-retirement.

I think matchmaking, but also who they have fight and where. It can all be loosely tied to matchmaking, but it’s really a 3 step fuckup in my opinion.

  1. Signing guys like Justin Thornton. This isn’t meant to be a shot at him directly, but they are taking a guy who is 6-18 in MMA, lost his last 5 fights, been stopped by strikes like 11 times, and hasn’t won a fight since 2016. Why are older guys on losing streaks getting signed to BKFC to fight on PPV? Especially guys who have never fought in big shows before? I get it if we’re talking about Hector Lombard (to a certain point) but why the guys who have losing records in local MMA? He’s not the only one, and it’s obvious why they’re there.

  2. Matching these guys with tough opponents. They didn’t take the guy with a losing record in local MMA and match him with a guy with a similar record. They put him in with a guy who is 11-1 in MMA, and has 2 KO’s in BKFC.

  3. Holding events in states with lax athletic commissions who don’t really have the resources to properly regulate big events. Do you think Andy Foster and the CSAC would sign off on this fight?

And to be clear, I don’t think they’re doing something other local shows aren’t doing. I don’t think BKFC is even in the minority here. Like I said above, local MMA is a really weird place. Guys coming off a 3 fight losing streak in the UFC are trying to get back on track, and they’re fighting for $2000 locally if they get the “right fight” and by right fight, I mean a guy they should pretty easily beat. As others have posted above, even their trainers know what’s up, the referees know what’s up and are often told to “keep a close eye” on this one or to “have a fast hook” on this one. There’s gotta be hundreds of similarly matched fights every year, and every time but this one the guy went home to his family.

I’m not trying to downplay it or anything, my point is that it’s shocking to me that we don’t have more incidents like this. Maybe not this bad, but it’s shocking there aren’t more serious injuries with all the similarly bad matchups. It feels a little different with BKFC though, because it’s ALL standing. There’s no easy way for the heavy favorite to land a quick 1-2, then take the guy down and choke him.

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I think a UFC farm league might help standardize a lot of things and solve some of this.

Many reasons as stated, but “bare knuckles” isn’t one. Freak fall, and if a fault can be found, it’s bad matchmaking. I haven’t watched any BKFC events, but I fail to see that lack of gloves caused this.

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I don’t necessarily think it’s the bare knuckles either…but let me ask you this…if Diego Sanchez gets booked against Thiago Alves in BKFC, that fight feels kinda gross and we expect to see Diego face down, right? What about if they fought in regular boxing with big gloves? What about in MMA?

I would think MMA would probably go to decision, with Diego using a ton of clinch, and wrestling. If Diego does get cracked, Thiago would jump on him for the quick TKO finish. Boxing with big gloves? Not sure, honestly. The big gloves allow you to block more shots, and avoid getting hit as clean (on average) so maybe Diego clinches a bunch and loses a decision, maybe he gets stopped, not sure. In BKFC, I’m 95% sure the fight ends early with Diego brutally knocked out and bloody.

So is it the fact that there’s no glove, and bare knuckles are SOOOO brutal? Not really…I’d feel the same way about boxing with MMA gloves. I think the other factors I listed around matchmaking are the big problem, but putting those guys in a standup only fight without the big gloves does make it worse IMO. I think it’s easier to knock guys out bare fisted than it is with 10 ounce gloves…easier to break eye sockets etc.

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Yes, and more bleeding, but LESS cumulative damage and brain rattling as you’d see in boxing. The bad matchmaking and freak fall caused the death, not the specific set of fighting rules.

Haven’t seen word one of this in the media…

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Regional shows are also full of mismatches, but I doubt any of them have had a death and a coma since 2018. And the guy who went into a coma won his fight.

The real, safer version of bare knuckle didn’t use wrist wraps. Ask any old school karate guy who trains without them how easy it is to sprain your wrist if you’re punching full power.

“I can punch with okay-level power without anything on my hands, that’s okay but I have to worry about my alignment constantly, am I causing some injury to my wrist … I have to be so perfect, and I can never give my 100 percent.”

–Sensei Apu