Black Belt in Muay Thai ?

I think most of the conversations about what is, and what is NOT authentic Muay Thai are foolish.

I care far more about my guy's WINNING and think "authentic" Muay Thai is training at a camp in Thailand that trains competing fighters.

That said, I had an experience that really pissed me off recently.

I new club opened up in the next city over from me and someone suggested that I go check out the BJJ guy there.

The BJJ guy seemed to be the real deal but I was introduced to his partner a "Muay Thai Blackbelt".

His class was filled with people wearing Thai Boxing Shorts and "Karate Belts".

This INFURIATED ME.

Upon some investigation I learned that the two "Muay Thai Black Belt" instructors NEVER had even a single actual fight between them and none of their current students have ever had an actual match.

I went back to see them "spar". All the students wore full head gear with case cages. I did not see a knee, elbow, clinch or throw in the entire class.

I'm not suggesting Thai Boxing in America should "evolve", and I understand that the need to generate some revenue matters in the USA where few people will fight for money.

But turning Muay Thai into the modern "Tae Bo" really infuriates me.

Really made me want to go back for a "Trail lesson" :)

I know a lot of the Brazilian's use a belt system for their Muay Thai. I'm not about to tell Anderson or Shogun they're not Black Belts (lol) IMO I don't care about a ranking system I just want good lkegit training.

Sounds like you should announce the name of the school in question.

i too have only known brasileiros to give belts for MT

I train Muay Thai under an instructor that uses a belt system. His school also has traditional martial arts which he has legit training from Japan that can be traced. He then began his own Muay Thai training under a well known instructor that has come to our school to train us once.

Anyway, he started off by letting me know that traditional Muay Thai doesn't use a belt system but he uses it as a way to separate students by experience level. He also uses it to elevate combos and techniques. Basically starting out with basics, then moving up thru more advanced clinches and techniques.

I get the reasoning and appreciate him letting me know up front why he uses this system when most don't. He was also upfront about it creating an achievement for students to strive for and reach. Meaning that those who do not want to fight can have this system to help measure their progress. Those who fight can obviously measure their progress via fights and sparring. We have a fight team and I've enjoyed my time there. Phone Post

JoeStagner - I think most of the conversations about what is, and what is NOT authentic Muay Thai are foolish.

I care far more about my guy's WINNING and think "authentic" Muay Thai is training at a camp in Thailand that trains competing fighters.

That said, I had an experience that really pissed me off recently.

I new club opened up in the next city over from me and someone suggested that I go check out the BJJ guy there.

The BJJ guy seemed to be the real deal but I was introduced to his partner a "Muay Thai Blackbelt".

His class was filled with people wearing Thai Boxing Shorts and "Karate Belts".

This INFURIATED ME.

Upon some investigation I learned that the two "Muay Thai Black Belt" instructors NEVER had even a single actual fight between them and none of their current students have ever had an actual match.

I went back to see them "spar". All the students wore full head gear with case cages. I did not see a knee, elbow, clinch or throw in the entire class.

I'm not suggesting Thai Boxing in America should "evolve", and I understand that the need to generate some revenue matters in the USA where few people will fight for money.

But turning Muay Thai into the modern "Tae Bo" really infuriates me.

Really made me want to go back for a "Trail lesson" :)


What town/city?

Also, this is nothing new. Some instructors are legit, and use a belting system to keep folks engaged and to allow them to "see" their progress. I am no fan of this, but its a business move, and fact is it allows them to make more money.

Now the other side are guys who dont know what the fuck they are doing, have some very bad kickboxing fundamentals (whether it is Thai boxing or just any sort of fighting with kicks (PKA, Dutch style, what ever) and are using belts to hide out as long as they can. The second sort is also nothing new, but not much anyone can do about frauds. I have noticed fraud types, are usually very good shmoozers and great at having stories and "selling" ideas to folks who dont know anything, they never have anyone tough stay around, but the guys do manage to keep doors open quite often, while alot of legit guys worry about how to pay the bills. In this regard I mean people who can really fight/teach others, not necessarily just Thai boxing guys.

JoeStagner - I think most of the conversations about what is, and what is NOT authentic Muay Thai are foolish.



I care far more about my guy's WINNING and think "authentic" Muay Thai is training at a camp in Thailand that trains competing fighters.

 I can certainly understand your point about winning, but I think that integrity in your art is very important for maintaining high standards and the true "art".



ex. I teach MMA. I'm 100% certain I could have some of my mma students enter local "muay thai" competitions and they would win. Does that mean they have better muay thai? no it means they are better conditioned, highly skilled at boxing and clinching and can use their mma to win.



but that's not going to happen because we've got a great muay thai program and our instructor teaches a very authentic style of mauy thai, focusing on how the fights are fought and scored in Thailand. I'm not going to have my guys enter muay thai fights just to get "ring experience" unless they can do so displaying real nak muay skills that set them apart from the sloppy boxing with leg kicks we often see.



It's not always about winning IMO, its also about winning in a style that shows your skills and respect to your craft.

My reaction(s)?

First, if you can't keep the doors open, it doesn't matter how real authentic and deadly your muay thai is, you'll be doing it in the park

Second, most of the Holland guys (and, in fact, original Japan guys) who are gods of the ring started off as Kyokushinkai guys in belts

The real issue is, is the quality of training good? Are they getting what they want? There are tons of people who want to break a sweat, learn some martial arts and have a good time, not be professional Nak Muay.

In traditional muay thai you grow through the ranks you are tested and if you succeed your test you get ranked up and you get blessed tassels yellow being go brown being up there Phone Post

BrockTheBearLesnar - In traditional muay thai you grow through the ranks you are tested and if you succeed your test you get ranked up and you get blessed tassels yellow being go brown being up there <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


Really?

BrockTheBearLesnar - In traditional muay thai you grow through the ranks you are tested and if you succeed your test you get ranked up and you get blessed tassels yellow being go brown being up there <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


This how they do it at your gym?

Thats how my Kru does it and he takes all his guidance from the buddhist temple Phone Post

BrockTheBearLesnar - Thats how my Kru does it and he takes all his guidance from the buddhist temple <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


wow

BrockTheBearLesnar - Thats how my Kru does it and he takes all his guidance from the buddhist temple Phone Post


Who is your Kru?

Kru Pons Ramon Phone Post

This him? Kru Pons (Muay Thai)

http://es-la.facebook.com/people/Kru-Pons/100000604504208


http://www.miichajmuaythai.com/

Miichaj Muay Thai
1100 Wilcrest Dr.
suite 114 lakeside plaza
Houston TX, 77042

Yah thats him Phone Post

Why did they copy Rawai Muay Thai's logo?

http://www.miichajmuaythai.com/resources/Miichaj_logo.JPG

http://www.rawaimuaythai.com/index-photos/Rawai%20Muay%20Thai%20logo%20red%20blue.jpg

One of my favorite websites used to be "The Belt Is In The Ring".

This is first time I've heard of blessed tassels being used in "traditional muay thai" for ranking. Not buying it. Not that you can't do it, but that it is in some way a traditional approach. Sauce?

I believe Phil Nurse does the colored armband rankings now as well IIRC.

Ryu, I think everybody has vaguely used that logo to some degree or another, I think I latched on to a form of it back in 1992 or so. At that time I think I caught it from a Fairtex design.