Bob Holly being punished????

Obviously by my previous posts, I hate Bob Holly.

Is he being punished for his recent behavior (a definite pattern) by being forced to job to Puder?

Besides firing the asshole, I can think of no better way to punish him than make him lay down for Puder.

damn, missed it.

Holly and Puder are slated to work against each other in "Hardcore" matches on house shows the next few weeks.

Last night, Puder/Holly had words in the locker room w/ Puder coming off as an arrogant prick and Holly as the vet seeking to teach him respect.

The idea behind these hardcore matches is to give Puder experience and visibility in front of live crowds without exposing his lack of working ability. Garbage style matches are relatively easy to do even for novices. Holly's enough of a seasoned vet to help groom the kid and help him grow. Since Holly volunteered I assume he's willing to play the role.

Being given the responsibility of mentoring someone and being told to teach them and make them look good in the process is not the same thing as being punished. Winning and losing has nothing to do with it as long as they're both making money off it. This is a productive and logical use for someone like Holly at this stage in his career and I'm sure he accepts it.

Now should Holly do something to violate the position of trust he's being assigned then that's another issue entirely that would come with 'punishment' type consequences....providing Puder doesn't pull a Dupree like stunt to provoke such an issue!

Do you think Holly volunteered as a way to try and make amends for the Dupree incident?

What a Holly defender. lol

No doubt that's part of it. The Dupree situation certainly wasn't 'positive' for his career so it makes sense to step up and give back a little. That's also behind him going out of his way to be a positive presence in Iraq. Note he went over in his match while on tour and was given a lot of positive air time. Why? Because overall he has respect from the office and the boys due to his being a good employee and in general a good person.

There's a difference between Bob Holly the real person who's been part of the company day in and day out for close to a decade and the 'bad guy' persona that's created over the Internet. While he's been part of some questionable situations, most of the stories are blown out of proportion, never include first person accounts by those involved and tend to purposely leave out pertinent details in an effort to make Holly look a certain way. Many of the 'anonymous' sources behind said information should be viewed with a jaundiced eye (ESPECIALLY when it comes to what passes for pro wrestling journalism).

I remember earlier this year when Bradshaw was portrayed as having 'broke the law' in Germany by various media outlets. After all the misinformation is refuted and the lies are exposed and it's proven no laws were broken...it's still too little to late. You can't give a man back the damage that's done to his reputation. It's just something that comes with being in the public eye.

For close to a decade Bob Holly is someone who shows up on time, works hurt and does whatever he's told. He doesn't draw any money but outside of a few incidents he's been a dependable hand who gets along with just about everyone. That may not make for a great read but it's reflective of how he's viewed and treated in actuality by his employer. That should count for something in such discussions.

While it's fair for people to question him based on sensational incidents they may have read about or learned through hearsay, in discussing him a little perspective would be nice.

You are totally biased imo.

McCanday, please explain to us your take on Holly beating the crap out of that kid on tough enough & the incident w/ Dupree. In your opinion was Holly justified in his actions in either or both of those cases? and if so, why?

dupree fucked up and got Holly a ticket on Bob's rental car, also, he's not liked backstage, so McCanday thinks it's all right to sick his goons on the young lad.

The reputation of Bob Holly being this 'abuser of young talent' began with the Tough Enough segment involving Matt Capotelli. The standard headline was "Bob Holly brutally attacks young Tough Enough contestant. He should be fired!"

Now in reality Bob Holly wasn't fired...or suspended...or even reprimanded. Now if there were all these witnesses to his 'crime', including producers, trainers, camera men, etc then how could his 'actions' go unpunished? Here are the reasons why:

  • Tough Enough is a reality show, and like all shows in it's genre the content is mnipulated for effect by the producers.

  • Bob Holly was cast to play the 'bad cop' type trainer throughout the show in various segments. In other words he was playing a role as instructed.

  • In the 'infamous' wrestling segment the producers planned out and instructed Bob Holly BEFOREHAND to vividly lay into Matt Capotelli during the match. Why? The idea and entire focus of this planned segment was this kid was among the top prospects to win. The producers wanted to test him to see how he would react in a pressure situation. In theory it makes for more compelling television. In practice years after the fact fans still refer to the segment, although largely as an attack on Bob Holly's character.

  • Did Matt Capotelli know about the segment before hand? No...the kids are never told how they will be positioned in the segments. The idea is to get spontaneous reactions. However IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Holly incident the kid extended his hand to Bob and 'thanked' him. Why? Because he realized it was a manipulated situation where his actions were being spotlighted and tested by both the producers and for later airing with a broader audience. Nothing was personal.

I'd add that later on EDITED OUT of the television show was Bob going up to Matt one on one to privately explain the specifics behind what happened in the ring and why. The two actually worked a program together later on in OVW (when Bob came back from rehab) and he put the kid over using the 'infamous' Tough Enough segment as a base premise.

My take is simple: That day Bob Holly did his job as he was told to by the producers. While it's open to interpretation as to whether he went 'too far' during the planned segment, what happened was not a case of a 'bully' taking advantage of a rookie. It's an example of a guy performing as he was told to do so on a television show meant to entertain people and get a reaction.

I'd add there are a lot worse ways for someone to break into the business than getting fifteen minutes of fame on MTV and being purposely positioned in a way to get sympathy in order to win a contest and cash prize.

As for Dupree/Holly, they were both unprofessional. Leading up to the incident Holly did Dupree a FAVOR by helping him get a rental car. Dupree repaid him by getting a ticket, deciding to throw it away and then choosing to screw Holly over by not telling him about it.

Bob eventually found out about it through a subpoena that was sent to his home and which left his wife upset. He had to pay out of pocket for airfare to fly out and spend a day in court to pay off the ticket...all thanks to Dupree.

When Holly flew back he went to confront Dupree...who chose to blow him off, refused to reimburse him and hid behind the agents backstage to avoid him. Later that night when Holly got him in the ring during a tag match he flipped out busted up the kids eye, challenged him to a fight after the match was over and literally chased him to the back.

Vince had two choices: Fire them both or tell them to put it behind them, act like professionals and just move on. My take is they were both in the wrong for the choices they made and it's best to just move on. They've since worked together without further incident.

On a side note, whenever someone gets even the slightest injury working opposite Holly it's built into the 'abuser of young talent' gimmick that's been created for him. My advice to fans is to check the sources of these reports, dig a little deeper and challenge their veracity as opposed to blindly accepting them as fact.

thanks for the explanation.

After reading this, i was wondering your thoughts on Wade Keller as a reporter McCanday?

"PWTorch.com reader Charles Long asks: I have just read of the vicious beating against Dupree by Bob Holly. It is my understanding that he has targeted a number of younger wrestlers this way. Only Angle and Lesnar have stood up to him. Why on earth do these young wrestlers take this crap off an over the hill never was?

WK: Because he's usually tougher than the people he beats up (although give him credit for going after Brock Lesnar and not just those weaker than him). Also because he has the unstated blessing of management by virtue of still having a job. There are definite mixed feelings among wrestlers and management regarding Holly's actions on Sunday night. He has become the WWE locker room police officer who nobody particularly likes, but is seen by some as an important cog in the locker room self-policing itself. Rene Dupree, as will be detailed in this week's Torch Newsletter "Cover Story" did a lot of things to upset Holly and many wrestlers have little sympathy for Dupree. "

My opinion of the Pro Wrestling Torch is extremely low. Keller frequently prints thing that are utter nonsense. From tabloid BS where 'anonymous sources have heard XYZ' to the spreading of blatantly false information such as claiming OVW was going to close shop and lose it's WWE affiliation. Do a Google on what Jim Cornette had to say about the quality of Keller's journalistic ethics.

Reading the paragraph you posted the image painted is that Bob Holly is 'evil' WWE is an 'enabler' for allowing his supposed reign of terror and if you're not a subscriber already...don't miss all the juicy details about what 'really' goes on in the 'locker room' in the next issue (even though Wade Keller hasn't been any closer to a WWE locker room than anyone reading and buying his product).

At least with the kayfabe Apter mags the people writing about and making money off the product were supportive of it. The stories at least it built the business up. Today you have predatory slander and gossip nonsense that rips the guys down on a personal level just to make a buck.

It plays to the audience it's targeted to, that being fans interested in a tabloid presentation of pro wrestling. There's an audience that likes gossip in sports, entertainment, politics, sci-fi, etc. Publications like the Weekly World News or the National Enquirer seem to always turn a profit. I would just hope people are mindful of the quality of what they are reading and understand it for what is.

If you are interested in learning more about pro wrestling as a profession where it is presented responsibly by a quality journalist then Dave Meltzer is the only source I recommend.

Below is a link to an article that documents an issue regarding the journalistic integrity of Wade Keller and his publication. It's just one of many controversies over the years and you can draw your own conclusions from it.

When reading about a performer being vilified on a personal level I urge people to be mindful and critical of the content and examine the credibility and motivations of those reporting it.

http://pwbts.com/columns/b081903.html

Jim Cornette:

"Wade Keller is not just a poor journalist, or incompetent, he's a liar. A malicious, pathological liar who tries to malign other people for the purpose of making a few extra dollars on subscriptions. A pathetic jock-sniffer who is frustrated because he can't BE somebody, only print lies about people who are. A gutless, sniveling coward who hides behind his keyboard and is a laughing stock among reporters in this industry who really DO try to report the truth and know when they read his writings and ramblings that he's doing "another Wade". Well, maybe I put it best when I just said he was a lying sack of shit, because that sums it up and I could have saved time.

If it sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight, well, you're right. I would consider it Christmas morning if the bastard was standing in front of me, but alas, that burden is on him since I'm ready to go and he's hiding behind a computer screen. So I apologize to fans of OVW for the inconvenience, everyone has learned once again not to believe everything they read, and I, in closing, raise a hearty middle finger to Mr. Keller and say as I have so many times before, "Guess what, pal, you're wrong again."

Interesting points.

"My opinion of the Pro Wrestling Torch is extremely low"

Keller is AWFUL and his 'columnists' are even worse!